male instructor touching students - I voiced my concern

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Hi guys, I don't know if you remember that some weeks ago I posted a message here regarding my health assessment male instructor touching the female students during lab classes. Anyway, 98% of the students in my class are women from 19 - 44 years old, and at least half of us (maybe more) feel really uncomfortable with this specific instructor. Anyway, he can be nice and funny at times, but many of us think he is quite bossy and arrogant, and overuses his power making some of us feel really small. So I was already frustrated about this whole thing, and two weeks ago when we had to do the abdomen assessment, I was lying in bed and 2 other students were working with me, assessing each other. We had curtains around and our instructor said that we didn't need to wear gown, so I was lying there with my shirt on top of my breasts and my jeans opened. He came into the cubicle where we were, and he asked me to show my pubic bone. But I was feeling kind of uncomfortable, and he said: "If you can't find it, I will!" And he reached down my panties and started touching my pubic bone, not taking into consideration that he was crossing my comfort zone and didn't respect the fact that I didn't want him touching me. Then when he grabbed my jeans to drop even more I said "NO".. and he ended up making comments about my pubic hair, as there was no reason for me to be shy because he had seen lots, and he looked at the two students and said that eventually we have to be forceful with patients.

I just felt that my privacy wasn't ensured at any time. He again overused his power, compromised my learning, and then came back later to ask if I was ok. Then the next day, he phoned my house to apologise, but because I was already fedup, I phoned the other campus (same University) and talked to the dean of health sciences and explained to her what had happened and I was curious to know what his job description really is and how far can he go. So to make the story short, the Dean of health sciences ended up phoning the coordinator of the nursing program and told her that I had phoned, and the dean also talked to the male instructor.

But it seemed to me that after the Dean talked to the instructor, they were convinced by his version of the story, and I felt as if I am just being a whiner and although the said that they understand my concerns and changes will be made, I think they are saying that just to pretend they are supporting me. The coordinator of the nursing program who is a female, is defending him, and said to me that "he is a nurse and he did that to me, just because he was trying to demonstrate to me where my pubic bone is"

I still think he shouldn't touch us at all. But apparently he thinks that he needs to keep demonstrating how to do things. I also suggested us wearing shorts and tanktops instead of just panties and bra, but I noticed some resistance to the idea.

Oh well... I just get a negative vibe from him, and I am happy to know that he won't ever tough me again, but I really wish something could be done, so people wouldn't feel intimidated to go to his class.

Thanks for listening..

Specializes in Emergency room, med/surg, UR/CSR.

OK, joining the fray late in the game, I agree with the OP, she had a right to feel like she did. And, I can't understand an instructor requiring the students to do exams on each other with only underwear on!!!!! That blows my mind!!! The other thing to remember is that students are often times young or in a position of having to please their instructors so will feel forced to do anything the instructor wants them to do, without complaint. Don't try to tell me it doesn't happen and that there aren't instructors who take advantage of that fact. Maybe this was a wake up call to the instructor and to the college that someone finally stood up to this man's inappropriate behavior so that it will be changed for good in the future. Nothing justifys someone making someone uncomfortable, not being an instructor, not "making a mistake," nothing! Good luck to the OP with your classes!! Kudos to you for standing up for your rights as well as the rights of all current and future students.

Pam

I said in my first post I did not want to start a war here and I did not mean to do that.

As I said in my first post, my second post, my third post and now this post if the guy is a perv than fry his behind.

I have complimented the original poster for her handling of the situation as I think she did a great job of seeing if there was a pattern in the past and bringing to light a potential pattern in the future for administration to deal with.

My jokes were about me. I was asked how I would handle the situation. I NEVER MADE LIGHT OF THE OP FEELINGS OR HER SENSITIVITIES IN THIS AREA. READ MY POSTS AGAIN, I TOLD HER IF SHE WAS UNCOMFORTABLE THAN HE WAS WRONG AND THUS IT WAS APPROPRIATE FOR HIM TO OFFER UP AN APOLOGY. I WAS NEVER ONCE INSENSITIVE TO THE FEELINGS OF THE OP. I ASKED HER TO THINK HARD BEFORE MAKING POTENTIALY LIFE ALTERING ACCUSATIONS TO POLICE AND DA'S. MY JOKES WERE ABOUT ME. SOMEONE ASKED ME HOW I WOULD FEEL. AND I SAID ... TOUCH AWAY... LIGHTEN UP ALREADY :uhoh3: ...my jokes were about me!

And for those who I offended in any way especially the OP, I apologize. I try to find a little humor in everything. For me, it helps cut the stress of my already over-stressed life. (perhaps this idea would help others in the world)

If you read my first post, my daughter starts at Binghamton University, Decker School of Nursing in September. If this happened to her and she felt violated I would act exactly as the OP has. My wife is also a nurse for 28 years and I would feel the same if it were her involved.

I hope you all have a safe and happy weekend.

dave :)

Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.

Whoa - go easy on Dave. I do not think he meant to invalidate her bad experience in any way, but was just trying to explore if there had been any chance for misunderstanding before totally burning the instructor on a cross.

I think he was also bringing a little of the male way of looking at things into the equation also. Males and females do have a different way of looking at things at times.

I believe his attempted humor was just an attempt to diffuse the situation a little and that he was sincerely trying to lighten things up.

I believe this instructor was totally inappropriate, but it is also worth exploring all avenues before persecuting someone.

To the original OP - It was inappropriate and I am sorry they didn't take stronger action against this instructor.

Specializes in Orthopedics/Med-Surg, LDRP.

Looking back at the original post - the instructor DID stop once she told him no. It seems like he went to the pubic bone (and that takes about what? 10 seconds?) Then he went to lower her jeans slightly (not take her panties off). She said no, he made a comment and that was it. It was over. All of this probably occurred in a 30 second to a minute interval. It's not like he was all down around her genitals (like some people are thinking) and it's not like he continued to force himself upon her after she told him no (like some people are thinking). It was just uncomfortable and crossed her "comfort zone". That's her right, I agree. But she told him stop he did, she complained, he was reprimanded (as stated in her later posts) and now things have improved. I can't see why we have to keep

thbeat_deadhorse.gif

:yeahthat:

Finally! Dave, I think that your jokes are completely inappropriate. Patients are going to be uncomfortable, but they have a right to refuse treatment at any point during a procedure. She said no, so her instructor should have stopped immediately! As my nursing professor stated yesterday in lecture, continuing to perform a procedure after a patient asks you to stop is considered assault.

Hi again guys, thanks for all your responses. I found it very interesting to read everyone's point of view on this matter and I do appreciate all your comments, even if you don't agree with me.

I am moving on... I also have 3 finals ahead of me and have lots to study.

Dave, I totally understand your view on things, but like someone said, some females and males have different opinions. The male student in my class sees things just the way you do, but in the beginning of the semester, when this instructor asked for a volunteer (the only time he did that), my male classmate raised his hands and the instructor said: "no, not you!" C'MON!!!

Listen, sometimes we have to listen to our hearts... I am married and had boyfriends before marrying my husband, so I am not afraid of men, but this guy was going way too far!!! if I tell you EVERYTHING that was going on in that class we would stay here forever. I just had enough and I still think that it's none of his business to be touching us anyway...

"raise your gown and I will show where your femoral pulse is" ... "drop your panties a little more"... "have a wine before coming to class, it helps to relax"..."oh she is wearing a tank top, this is not appropriate, she should be wearing a bra".........no, no.. it's not right! :o

Hope you all have a Merry Christmas and lots of luck with your studies and instructors!! Thanks again, so much, for everything. :)

MMH

looking back at the original post - the instructor did stop once she told him no. it seems like he went to the pubic bone (and that takes about what? 10 seconds?) then he went to lower her jeans slightly (not take her panties off). she said no, he made a comment and that was it. it was over. all of this probably occurred in a 30 second to a minute interval. it's not like he was all down around her genitals (like some people are thinking) and it's not like he continued to force himself upon her after she told him no (like some people are thinking). it was just uncomfortable and crossed her "comfort zone". that's her right, i agree. but she told him stop he did, she complained, he was reprimanded (as stated in her later posts) and now things have improved. i can't see why we have to keep

thbeat_deadhorse.gif

he doesn't have to touch her genitals in order to have committed a crime. he shouldn't have been anywhere near her groin period. since when do classes involve touching each other in that area of the body anyway?

he came into the cubicle where we were, and he asked me to show my pubic bone. but i was feeling kind of uncomfortable, and he said: "if you can't find it, i will!" and he reached down my panties and started touching my pubic bone, not taking into consideration that he was crossing my comfort zone and didn't respect the fact that i didn't want him touching me. then when he grabbed my jeans to drop even more i said "no".. and he ended up making comments about my pubic hair, as there was no reason for me to be shy because he had seen lots, and he looked at the two students and said that eventually we have to be forceful with patients.

the op is clearly stating that this instructor already knew she was not receptive to him touching her and yet he did and then attempted to grab her jeans. the fact that he said they would have to be forceful with patients clearly shows the tone of the whole situation. he knew he was being forceful against her wishes.

just so everyone is clear, here is a definition from a government site on the definition of sexual assault: http://www.4woman.gov/faq/sexualassault.htm

what is sexual assault?

sexual assault and abuse is any type of sexual activity that you do not agree to, including:

  • inappropriate touching
  • lady partsl, anal, or oral penetration
  • sexual intercourse that you say no to
  • rape
  • attempted rape
  • child molestation

sexual assault can be verbal, visual, or anything that forces a person to join in unwanted sexual contact or attention. examples of this are voyeurism (when someone watches private sexual acts), exhibitionism (when someone exposes him/herself in public), incest (sexual contact between family members), and sexual harassment. it can happen in different situations, by a stranger in an isolated place, on a date, or in the home by someone you know.

Specializes in Orthopedics/Med-Surg, LDRP.

Ok, I got your point the first, 2nd, 3rd, etc times that you've said the same thing. Did we not get the memo about not beating the dead horse? The OP has had her say on the matter, she's dropping it and I think for the sake of peace that everyone else follow suit.

Oh and as a P.S? The OP lives in Canada, our laws/rules hardly apply there.

ok, i got your point the first, 2nd, 3rd, etc times that you've said the same thing. did we not get the memo about not beating the dead horse? the op has had her say on the matter, she's dropping it and i think for the sake of peace that everyone else follow suit.

oh and as a p.s? the op lives in canada, our laws/rules hardly apply there.

it's not clear you really got my point njnursing. but i've been around long enough to know it's hard to convince the skeptic you know what i mean.

mmh_bc good luck in your studies. i know you'll be a great advocate for your patients. :)

NJNURSING...

We are just not going to let YOU have the last word.:chuckle

Specializes in Orthopedics/Med-Surg, LDRP.

i do understand your point and i've expressed such. we have a difference of opinion on it, that's all.

and dave - it has nothing to do with having the last word (as you went ahead and decided you wanted), but with not continuing to beat the dead horse repeatedly. no one is going to conform ideas/opinions so why keep going on and on and on about it? it's created several pages of circles and it can only go around so many times. i'm hopping off the merry go round, tyvm. to think i stuck up for your opinion and get this. sheesh.

it's not clear you really got my point njnursing. but i've been around long enough to know it's hard to convince the skeptic you know what i mean.

mmh_bc good luck in your studies. i know you'll be a great advocate for your patients. :)

Thank you Soleilpie for wishing me good luck with my studies! Have a good holiday!

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