I'm not going to lie... - page 5

by StudentOfHealing 9,842 Views | 134 Comments

Some people genuinely annoy me on here, I'm ALL for furthering education but dreading those of us who choose to start with our ADN is complete disrespect. Had my mother been healthier (she has RA and her pain is becoming... Read More


  1. 0
    Back to the original poster, I admire you for wanting to help your mom out, what a great young person!! I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors, you will be fine starting out as an adn, you just may have to be more persistent in trying to find a job.
  2. 2
    Quote from Ackeem
    i apologize if i offended any ADN RN i didn't mean to, i was just ignorant of the fact that one could go to college for 2 years and qualify to sit the same exam that BSN students take. And then be granted the same scope of practice with similar compensation. that doesn't happen in my country, an RN equates to someone who went to a university for 4 years period, 2 years of education equates to a "nursing assistant" who went to a community college. This is simply maintaining a high standard of a profession.
    Nursing has traditionally been seen as a vocational path. Meaning in order to do the job effectively all that's needed is job-specific training. You could studying at a hospital and get a diploma and sit for the boards. Anything beyond that (2 or 4 years at a college) was just a bonus. Careers like radiology technicians, respiratory therapists, physician's assistants, and physical therapy assistant were treating similarly.
    Thanks to that, we have multiple entries to the same job. All get the same basic nursing training.
    I do think now that nurses are expected to act more independently in more high-liability ways, perhaps a more broad education is warranted.

    I listen to the radio every morning on my way to school. Every morning I hear commercials. And at least 2 of those commercials are advertising nursing programs. Come make a lot of money! Start right away! Wear scrubs to work!

    I don't think for one second the multiple entry point situation is the key to raising up the profession. The profession doesn't even respect itself. When I can get a bachelor's degree in nursing from Devry, the degree has gone the way of the business degree. Nothing fancy.

    When the BONs decide to unite and stop allowing unaccredited programs to take the NCLEX and practice...when they control the number of grads being put into the field to keep demand high...when there's some cohesion, then I'll get behind the single entry point.

    But for now I think it's the least of our professionalism worries.
    rubato and soxgirl2008 like this.
  3. 1
    Quote from StudentOfHealing
    . I completely believe obtaining your BSN and MSN is good... I plan to do that ... why would I oppose it?
    Just playing a bit of devil's advocate here but if you believe in nurses obtaining higher education I assume you feel that it is valuable to their practice, so, if you we're sick and needed a nurse who you had never met, would you want one with an ADN, BSN, or MSN/DNP?

    Nurses have incredible responsibility for other people's lives. It it really appropriate that we let them take that responsibility with less education because it is cheaper/faster/easier?

    I would never disrespect a nurse with and ADN; I would love for them to continue on in education but that's their choice. I do advocate for a bachelor entrance to practice though.
    KelRN215 likes this.
  4. 0
    Quote from Stephalump
    I don't think for one second the multiple entry point situation is the key to raising up the profession. The profession doesn't even respect itself.

    But for now I think it's the least of our professionalism worries.
    How long have you been working in nursing? I would think by your first few years of practice you would have experienced how other healthcare providers (and even patients) struggle to respect the education of nurses because it is so varied.

    I think most nurses highly respect the profession.
  5. 0
    Quote from BostonFNP

    How long have you been working in nursing? I would think by your first few years of practice you would have experienced how other healthcare providers (and even patients) struggle to respect the education of nurses because it is so varied.

    I think most nurses highly respect the profession.
    I don't dispute that buy point is that the list of changes that need to be made to the educational system is not a Hirt one, I don't think BSN-only even ranks at the top. We don't just need bachelor's degrees. We need VALUABLE bachelor's degrees, or how can we really expect people to invest more of themselves to get it?
  6. 1
    Quote from Stephalump
    I don't dispute that buy point is that the list of changes that need to be made to the educational system is not a Hirt one, I don't think BSN-only even ranks at the top. We don't just need bachelor's degrees. We need VALUABLE bachelor's degrees, or how can we really expect people to invest more of themselves to get it?
    I agree. If you have the money, it's extremely easy to get a BSN at all these for profit online schools. If we changed the entry point to BSN I don't think it would do much considering there's all these ads saying "come get your BSN in only 36 months! Do half online! Wear scrubs to work!" How does this promote professionalism anymore than a multiple point entry into practice? You don't see ads like this for medical school, PT school, dental school, etc. If we want the entry point to be BSN only, the quality of all BSN programs needs to be improved as well. The problem isn't a multiple point entry. The problem is all these for profit online schools. This is what makes many people I know think less of the educational standards of nursing.
    Last edit by soxgirl2008 on Feb 9, '13
    gummi bear likes this.
  7. 1
    Quote from BostonFNP
    Just playing a bit of devil's advocate here but if you believe in nurses obtaining higher education I assume you feel that it is valuable to their practice, so, if you we're sick and needed a nurse who you had never met, would you want one with an ADN, BSN, or MSN/DNP?Nurses have incredible responsibility for other people's lives. It it really appropriate that we let them take that responsibility with less education because it is cheaper/faster/easier?I would never disrespect a nurse with and ADN; I would love for them to continue on in education but that's their choice. I do advocate for a bachelor entrance to practice though.
    If I was sick I wouldn't care what degree my nurse had as long as they were a competent nurse, and at my hospital most nurses are ADNs and they give great patient care. I can think off the top of my head which nurse at work I'd want taking care of me, and guess what? She has an ADN! But she's smart, knowledgable, catches things very quickly, is thorough in her assessments and a very hard worker. I've seen great ADN nurses, bad BSN nurses and vice versa. Having an MSN doesn't automatically make you more competent. And btw, I don't know any MSN/DNPs who are still at the bedside. At least not on a general med/surg floor. Where I work nurses are respected by doctors, pharmacists, respiratory, etc. and they are highly respected by patients.
    Blue Felt Fedora likes this.
  8. 0
    Quote from BostonFNP
    How long have you been working in nursing? I would think by your first few years of practice you would have experienced how other healthcare providers (and even patients) struggle to respect the education of nurses because it is so varied.I think most nurses highly respect the profession.
    I'm not an RN, but I work on a med/surg floor as a CNA and our nurses are highly respected by patients, doctors, pharmacists, etc. they respect the local ADN program and know that it is a hard program. Not all RNs everywhere are disrespected by other co workers.
  9. 1
    For me, I have a BA already. I am getting my ADN from a college that requires all the same pre-reqs as the local university BSN program plus FIVE semesters in the nursing program. IOW, there isn't that much difference between the programs for me except cost. And that's huge. I will bridge to BSN after I start working. I'm not interested in going into debt, unless someone gives me a better reason than I can figure right now.

    OP, do what's best for YOU.
    soxgirl2008 likes this.
  10. 0
    Quote from BostonFNP
    I know it's not a popular thought but....I am a firm believer that new entry to practice should be a Bachelor's. I have absolutely no problem with current ADNs; just change the entry of practice for future nurses.
    I'm curious to know why you feel this way about ADN's. Is a new ADN graduate nurse somehow detracting from a new BSN graduate nurse or their education? If so how? I absolutely believe that getting a BSN, MSN and or becoming a NP is wonderful and truly elevates our profession. I plan on bridging and acquiring a BSN myself after graduation in a few weeks. If one chooses or has the option or funds to do so, it's definitely optimal for their career path to have the BSN, but when it comes to clinical hours and patient care, some community college ADN programs actually have more required clinical hours than some BSN programs from nationally recognized Universities. So there will inevitably be some Associate degree RN's graduating and entering the workforce with more clinical hours under their belt, than some Bachelor degree RN's. I do not however believe that means one is better then the other, just perhaps more prepared for actual patient care. Let us also try to remember that we are all in this together and it is not a contest between ADN's and BSN's. We all want to be, or all ready are RN's (or LPN's) and have a passion for patient care, or at least I know I do. I am a much older student than most of my ADN classmates and some of them are fabulous and very intelligent people. I'm also mindful that some of them will be taking care of me in 20 yrs and I can tell which ones will be wonderful nurses and which ones even after their BSN's, I pray I never get as a nurse! I have personally had a few surgeries and there are great nurses, mediocre ones and some not so competent ones, no matter what their educational level. I believe that what she was trying to convey in her post, was that it annoys her to read how judgmental some on here are and I agree with her. It is unfortunate that some can't be more encouraging and not quite so judgmental. Nevertheless I think it is admirable that at such a young age she cares for her mother and seems to a have the right heart for nursing and she will most likely be one of those that makes a wonderful nurse whether she has an ADN or BSN.


Top