Held Ransom - page 2

I was reading another thread and the thought occured to me that quite a few instructors bank of the idea that a student is afraid to say anything due to possible reprisal. So far, I have not had... Read More

  1. by   BABNRS
    I agree, we need an instructors perspective....Somehow I doubt there are many in this forum. Maybe we should seek one out!!!

    I feel a new thread coming on!!!
  2. by   wv_nurse 2003
    I have a little advise Bevi
    I teach part time at a small community college. The best advise I can give you is to be prepared . I expect students to be nervous, particularly in a clinical setting--that is normal. But to not have a clue (literally) about your patient, or the medications they are taking, that gets under my skin. I have never called a student stupid--I don't believe in intimidation tactics. I realize students are there to learn. But don't confuse "learn" with "mind-melt". Some students felt it wasn't their responsibility to read about procedures, etc. their patient was having done--they felt it was my job to teach them. Unfortunately it just doesn't work that way.

    After "always be prepared" {sounding a bit boy scout-ish}
    The second thing is don't "argue" with an instructor, particularly in front of a patient. There is a time and a place if you disagree, and in front of a patient is never appropriate. If you don't understand an instructotr's reasoning, or just disagree with her point of view--discuss it in private. As much as a student wants to be treated with respect--so do teachers. Its a two way street.

    Things I have read on this board, seen with my own eyes, and experienced in my own schooling make me sick. Unfortunately it is a fact of life--there will be those who treat you like "dirt" even after you graduate. Always try to take the high road; work hard, and you will earn respect and become a valuable addition to the profession.

    I tell my students--its not up to me to make you a good nurse. I won't take the blame if you are a "bad" nurse, and I won't take the credit if you are a great one--that is entirely up to YOU


    Best of luck to all of you!
  3. by   Ortho_RN
    I think bad instructors are a a minimal percentage of most instructors.... We have a few instructors who have the reputation for yelling at students, but I had this instructor and loved her, actually she is going to be my choice in who I pick to pin me.... She did get very upset at a few of my classmates.. but only because they were not prepared.. If you aren't prepared and can't answer a few questions then you deserve to get in trouble... Should they yell at you in front of patients, NO... But they do have a right to tell you how it is...

    I'm sorry for everyone who has had bad instructors, but I always tell myself.. What doesn't kill me only makes me stronger...
  4. by   VickyRN
    I wish we could get the perspective of a nurse instructor here...
    It would be good to hear from an instructor about just what they expect..... what sets them off....etc....
    I'll begin clinicals in sept, after 2 long difficult years of pre-reqs and such hard work..... it's scary to me that someone can rip it all away because they feel like it....
    I'm nervous about clinicals now!

    s
    I am a very new nursing instructor at a small community college (ADN). I consider it a privilege to be preparing new nurses, especially since I graduated from the same program myself just a few years ago.
    I guess first of all, let me remind you all that instructors are human beings. We are certainly not perfect, and have many flaws. I am amazed at what I see now, being on the "other side." As a student, I always thought my instructors could just about walk on water and were the epitome of professionalism. I thought the instructors were the quintessence of what nursing should be. Now that I interact with them on a collegial level, I see them in a much different light: Human beings with frailities and faults, personal problems at home or with their children, financial difficulties, etc., etc. I find some of them not that professional at all in their private moments.
    I always try to treat my students with the upmost of respect. I strive (and I mean STRIVE) to be fair. I try to make the students feel at ease and to actually enjoy clinicals.
    I do expect the students to be prepared, to exercise critical thinking, to incorporate theory into their clinical experience, and to be SAFE. Safety, to me, is always number one. I always tell my students, "There is no such thing as a dumb question. What is TRULY unforgiveable is if you DON'T KNOW and DON'T ASK for guidance. This is unsafe practice."
    I would advise you students to treat your instructors with respect. Always follow the golden rule, even if your disagree. There is much wisdom in this old saying, "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar." :kiss
  5. by   VickyRN
    Oh, and another thing. VALUE your instructors. ENCOURAGE your instructors. There is an even greater shortage of nurse faculty than there are practicing nurses. There are not a lot of incentives for nurse educators. I lost about $10 grand a year just by leaving the hospital to teach. Being a nursing instructor is an EXTREMELY DIFFICULT JOB. There are a lot of headaches and legal issues in teaching and very little encouragement. We have just lost 3 of our old-time faculty and good replacements are hard to find. PLEASE let your instructors know that they are appreciated and that you notice the GOOD THINGS that they are doing.
  6. by   essarge
    Vicky,

    Please know that the majority of us do appreciate our good instructor's and I for one do let them know! I understand that there are legal ramifications etc that come with being an instructor but I can tell you from experience (not just my university but others as well) there are instructors that are just waiting for retirement or took teaching positions because they'd been asked to leave the facility they were working.

    Case in point: I know one person who is now and instructor that was asked to leave a hospital because she was totally wacky and would go off with the slightest thing. She got a position teaching (don't know how) and now instructs students in the same facility much to the chagrin of the administration at that facility. She has held her tongue in clinicals but continues this behavior at school. There have been numerous complaints lodged and nothing has been done.

    I wish we had more instructors like you who really cared about the students Shoot we had one instructor cancell two days worth of clinicals because she was going on vacation and now that class has to come back over the summer to make it up!!

    I think that maybe they should come up with an "NCLEX" type test for people to become an instructor that includes a psych profile to weed out the abusers!!

    Sorry, guess the soap box is where I needed to be tonight! Thanks for listening!
  7. by   VickyRN
    I wish we had more instructors like you who really cared about the students Shoot we had one instructor cancell two days worth of clinicals because she was going on vacation and now that class has to come back over the summer to make it up!!

    I think that maybe they should come up with an "NCLEX" type test for people to become an instructor that includes a psych profile to weed out the abusers!!
    I have an even better solution--PAY about $20 grand more a year (offer $60,000 for fulltime ADN faculty instead of $40,000 that I am receiving right now). Heck, the students that I graduate start off (as new ADN nurses) making MORE MONEY THAN I DO!!!!! What's wrong with this picture???? IF the pay were better, then the nursing instructor candidate pool would be much broader. As it is, there is little monetary incentive for nurses to enter the nurse education field (other than a love for teaching and nurturing young nurses :kiss ). A lot of really promising candidates are going for the BIG BUCKS--CRNA ($100 + grand a year and a whole lot LESS headache), nurse practitioner ($60-$70 grand/year), nurse midwifery ($?/year)--there is such a shortage of candidates for nurse educator positions that it is truly frightening.
    Last edit by VickyRN on Apr 27, '03
  8. by   Hellllllo Nurse
    I had several hateful instructors in RN school. I was a returning, older student.

    I finally went to the dean and complained, in a professional manner, with written accounts of occurances with dates, names etc.

    He said "I thought that students were complaining, just because they weren't doing well. But you are the top student in your class. I guess there may be some validity to what I've been hearing."

    I learned that an instructor had sent out an email to other instructors telling them I was a "trouble maker".

    I did a seminar on The Image of Nursing for this instructor's class. I was excited by the topic, and spent a lot of time and $$ on the project. She openly argued with me during my presentation, and said my topic was "irrelevent."

    Well....... My presentation is now on permanent display in the lobby of the oldest hospital in The US, Eastern State Hospital in VA, with me listed as co-author.

    Anyway, after many of us complained to the dean of students and VP of the college, there was an investigation. Result: The director of the nursing program was suspended for three days for child endangerment.
    She took a "voluntary" early retirement.

    I know for a fact that my activism hurt me academically and politically at school.
    I won an award from the microbiology dept. My evil nursing instructor specifically told the student speaker at our graduation not to mention my award in her speach.

    Thanks to some of my fellow students and I speaking up and sticking our necks out, the entire program has been revamped, and is a much more pleasant experience for students.

    I talked to an old classmate on IM last week. Even though it's been three years, she is still angry about her school experience, and so am I.
    Last edit by Hellllllo Nurse on Apr 27, '03
  9. by   jenac
    Helllo Nurse- I can relate to that last statement. I am so proud to say that I survived nursing school! But for months- I had nightmares every night about it, even after I had graduated.

    I had a horrible instructor who made my life so miserable in the last half of my schooling. She was mean and nasty and lived for my tears. She was truley relentless. In any other way-in any other aspect of my life-I never would have taken the abuse this women felt she need to torure me with. The real kick came when she openly told me, and several other students that her "problems with me were really a personality conflict". I worked so hard-and put so much into everything I did. And this women made my life soooo hard. I felt truely inept-as a nurse and as a person. I felt like I had no business doing anything involving people-despite the fact that I had done so well in all other areas-with no problems at all. It wasn't that I didn't know what I was doing, or that I wasn't doing it correctly- I never seemed to be able to do it the way she wanted. No matter what I did- it wasn't good enough. My six week rotation with her almost sent me over the egde. I cried every day on my way to clinicals-and every day on my way home. It literally took everything in me to pull myself there every day. But after everything I had done-all that work, all that money-putting my entire life and family on hold to do this, I would not give up. I refused to let this women do that to me-to take that from me. So-every day I went back. Every day I cried. I told myself that every day was one less that I had to put up with her.

    In the end- I still won. I'm a nurse now-and she couldn't stop me from that.
  10. by   GPatty
    Wow. I must've really been blessed. I had NO instructors like this. They were all helpful, kind and caring ladies who just wanted to see us succeed.
    There was one substitute once though, who decided to yell at all of us for leaving the floor early, even though she said to meet her 1/2 hour before in the conference room! And because I got a bit testy back at her, I was deemed to be a trouble maker too, but I wrote right back on the write-up about what happened, and it was dropped.
  11. by   BABNRS
    Originally posted by VickyRN
    I have an even better solution--PAY about $20 grand more a year (offer $60,000 for fulltime ADN faculty instead of $40,000 that I am receiving right now). Heck, the students that I graduate start off (as new ADN nurses) making MORE MONEY THAN I DO!!!!! What's wrong with this picture????
    This is so true!!! I had a desire while still in nursing school to teach nurses one day. The pay has kept me from that up to this point However, that is one of my goals once my hubby finishes nursing school.

    Actually, I have thought about applying as a nursing instructor where my hubby goes to school now Wouldn't that be a riot....do you think they would hire me!!! (If you don't know what I mean, read my thread "Complaints against a school")

    The phrase "absolute power corrupts, absolutely" comes to my mind when I think of some of his instructors who are trying to fail him. What a waste of time and $$$ - he will be nurse, but he won't be an alumni of that program!!!!
  12. by   Bevi
    Bab, its been a few days, has anyone told him yet what the complaint was??? was it made by a patient? ,a nurse? Its so weird that they would not tell him, I have a friend who was notifyed immediately of what her "mistake" was (even though it was bull).....
    Your husbands situation is confounding..
  13. by   BABNRS
    No, Bevi....no word on what the mysterious complaint was! Even wierder is that Administration decided to "grant" him an official withdrawal complete with a letter of recommendation to get into another school's program!! How Conveeeeeenient!!!! Sounds like there either was no complaint or it had no meat to it! I think there is a covert cover-up going on!!!

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