For students that are undecided between RN/PA - page 5

I wanted to let anyone that is considering PA vs NP or RN know that I have experienced a semester of nursing classes, and found that the curicculum did not match my expectations nor seem appropriate... Read More

  1. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    brett,


    Did you want to input on the topic?
  2. by   kcsun3
    Peeps.

    Thank you for a thoughtful, well-reasoned reply. I am enjoying our discussion.

    We agree that the difference between the medical model and the nursing model is in the approach. Where our opinions deviate is in defining what those specific, unique approaches are.

    You said,
    "The medical model simply embraces the sciences as a basis for care and the nursing model embraces psychosocial issues as a foundation."

    Many may differ with me here, but I feel the following is a more accurate portrayal:

    A. The medical model and the nursing model are both founded in the sciences.
    B. The medical model evaluates, diagnoses and treats a medical condition or disease.
    C. The nursing model evaluates, diagnoses and treats problems the patient (and, in some cases, their family) experiences as a result of, or in response to, the medically diagnosed condition or disease. The nature of this approach inherently lends itself to holisitic care.

    I am not sure if I have elucidated my thoughts very well, but hope that makes some sense and maybe is a springboard for further discussion/debate?

    Anyone else? Am I the only one who thinks this way?
  3. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    Kcsun,

    That's very well put. What an eloquent way to put it.

    I don't want to hog the board, and I want to stay on-topic, so I'll think on it for a little bit before I comment.
  4. by   JNJ
    Peeps McArthur: Two comments:

    1. Do you realize how oversubscribed the nation's PA programs are? They can, and do cream off the very best from their applications. They also look at reasons for becoming a PA and are looking for people who are clear about the role of physician's assistant.

    2. As a profession, it's nurses who shape what our profession is and does; curricula are designed, by nurses, to educate to the knowledge and practice of our profession. While student input into curriculum issues is encouraged, I feel your comments relate not to the fit of the curriculum for nursing practice (which you do not yet understand), but its fit for you as an individual, undecided about profession and role.

    Incidentally, as a long term patient at a major primary care facility where I have choices between MD, PA and NP, it's the NP I choose to see the majority of the times I attend. Why? Because, as an RN, I don't visit for trivial reasons and I value the breadth of understanding/experience the NP (he or she) brings to the multi-faceted problem I am presenting.

    I do hope you find your 'fit' in a career choice/educational program.
  5. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    JNJ,
    Chosing an NP over a PA is a personal choice that I respect. Given your profession, I can understand the basic motivation.

    Of course, I would like to point something out.

    It is true that PA programs only pick the top candidates, from the top candidates. Once the candidate is in, the weeding-out process continues with the difficulty and volume of the curicculum. Is NP curicculum just as difficult? That's subjective, so we can't qualify that, but it is generaly accepted that med school curicculum is difficult and voluminous. Since med schools, as well as PA schools, train in the same medical model, we can form an opinnion that PA school is more difficult to get into, and more difficult to complete.

    The prerequisites are equal to or greater than that of NPs under the conditions above. No wonder PA programs are more competitive, but the same basic coursework could lead up to admission into either program, but consider that There are no specific pre-PA programs. The PA student comes from a variety of fields, even nursing, making them global in thier experience. It's also possible to get admitted to an NP program without having been a nurse, but don't most NP candidates come from one field? Then don't most NPs train in the same theory?

    What should be considered when chosing a care provider to treat you? I think all of these factors should. Your care won't be that complicated at the level you will seek from either, but if one care provider is to be considered over the other based on difficulty of admissions criteria, curicculum difficulty, prerequisite background variety(as in well-rounded), then don't PAs stand out?

    If someone with a BSN were to become a PA I believe that would fulfill anyone's needs for background and coursework. That would truly blend the psychosocial with the medical wouldn't it?
    The factor in this case would be the science content of thier precourse work to move towards an understanding of the medical model. If this was considered, which direction do you think the subject would be compeled to move?
    The one with the least resistance.

    This is a compelling subject well worth exploring.
  6. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    From Kcsun
    A. The medical model and the nursing model are both founded in the sciences.
    The sciences, as evidenced by the curicculum focus of each, and the interpretation of the content from which the separate coursework is developed, is sufficiently distinct enough as to make each subject matter in thier distinct formats contrast to a point as to make the same subjects unrecognizeable from thier counterparts in terms.

    Now in english...........maybe

    The pathophysiology in the medical model is a different pathophysiology from the one in the nursing curicculum.

    Because of what content is derived by the concentration of the program. In order to claim an holistic approach, nursing must connect pathophysiology to all other subjects as to make them equal in mass, not separate subjects.

    Pathophysiology=100% of pathophysiology content. In order for it to be joined with other subjects, some must be taken away for a total of 100% of the content in order to make room for the addition of the holistic model. The medical model uses pathophysiology as it is.

    The inverse can be said for nursing's use of psychology, and siciology as one science(psychosocial). It is seamless to the holistic model.

    To the medical model they are separate aren't they? Why?
    Because of how they are utilized.
  7. by   NurseAngie
    peeps....ya know i like ya, but dude....i'm gettin' a headache just reading this banter. i hope your insanity is temporary. you are on a nursing board you know. if we wanted to be pa's then we would do so. i wish you the best.

    p.s. ~when i left mississippi in '99 there weren't any pa's in that state....i'm going to find out if that has changed.

    ciao for now,
    ~angie
  8. by   Love-A-Nurse
    originally posted by nurseangie
    peeps....ya know i like ya, but dude....i'm gettin' a headache just reading this banter. i hope your insanity is temporary. you are on a nursing board you know. if we wanted to be pa's then we would do so. i wish you the best.

    p.s. ~when i left mississippi in '99 there weren't any pa's in that state....i'm going to find out if that has changed.

    ciao for now,
    ~angie
    well, there you are angie.
  9. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    What are you implying?

    That I'm saying something that I shouldn't?

    That I should not post anything because I'm not trying to become a nurse?

    Nobody that is not going to talk favorably about nursing should post?(it's not unfavorable)

    Although it's only 3 or four people to make the same comment.............and it's kind of obvious that the kind of posts that seem to be telling me to shut-up are coming from people not intending to discuss the topic.

    So...............


    If you find my message difficult to understand, you could just ask what I meant by such-n-such. It is soooooooo obvious what you are doing and who might have encouraged you to do so

    That's so very nursing of you:chuckle

    Go ahead.say what you mean.................let it rip.
  10. by   kcsun3
    Hi Peeps

    You said:

    The pathophysiology in the medical model is a different pathophysiology from the one in the nursing curicculum.

    I have not found this to be true in my current program (at least I don't think it was different, but I don't have another frame of reference).

    Are you meaning that your experience with the nursing patho courses has been that they are less focused on the science, physiology and disease process, and instead focus more on nursing interventions for each specific condition (mine did not), or maybe threw in psycho/social stuff (mine did not do that either)...? Can you clarify or elaborate?

    I felt that the course offered by my school was designed to give us an understanding of pathophysiology as a foundation (along with our pharm course) that we could apply to our clinical experiences to better understand what was going on with our patients, their treatment and expected outcomes.
  11. by   fab4fan
    Any actual data to show that it's more difficult to become a PA than an NP?

    Why don't you go post at www.studentdoctornetwork.com. They have a PA section.

    I think you are just agitating here; you've got a similar thread running somewhere else. And some of your replies are far from the professional image you seem so desperate to have.
    Last edit by fab4fan on Jan 5, '03
  12. by   renerian
    Sorry you are disappointed in your schooling. I know I remember you posting that before. I have heard people say that about other nursing programs as well. I got my BS in nutrition and I loved it. I am on the last class for my MS in the same. I just could not bear any more nursing classes. My goal is to contract with home health agencies for nutritional visits or to teach at the college level.

    renerian
  13. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    By Kcsun

    Are you meaning that your experience with the nursing patho courses has been that they are less focused on the science, physiology and disease process, and instead focus more on nursing interventions for each specific condition (mine did not), or maybe threw in psycho/social stuff (mine did not do that either)...? Can you clarify or elaborate?
    Yes! That's it.

    Virtualy all of it was focused on how psychosocial issues have an effect an all things.

    That was only one program though, and just one semester. It would seem to run throughout the program though since it was the foundation class. As some people have posted, their experience with their courses was that the science was stressed more in their opinnion. I think it's possible that my program was in the minority,but I did look at a few university sites and found the course descriptions to be very similar.
    Psychosocial impact on pathological course was stressed throughout communications, interventions, I mean to say most anything that was assigned or discussed. Maybe it was simply my perception of the strength of the science content. I did well in science courses, while most struggled. Perhapse the content I see as barely scrapping the surface of what's needed other students see as all that's required to incorporate into the psychosocial model.
    Whatever the case, it was difficult for me to use both discilplines in that context, so it was not to be.

    From Fab
    I think you are just agitating here; you've got a similar thread running somewhere else. And some of your replies are far from the professional image you seem so desperate to have.
    It's funny that you would come here just to agitate me, so you could call me an agitater:chuckle
    I think the thread you are referring to died long ago, and didn't have quite the same theme. Maybe it was in the wrong section,but whatever the case this thread has quite a few views of people clicking on it to view it and very few negative responses in relation to the numer viewing.
    Any actual data to show that it's more difficult to become a PA than an NP?
    I understand how you might be upset by that,but I did not make the statement that started that idea. Look in the post that it was in response to.
    It's no use calling me unprofessional,I'm not one.



    By Renerian
    Sorry you are disappointed in your schooling. I know I remember you posting that before. I have heard people say that about other nursing programs as well. I got my BS in nutrition and I loved it. I am on the last class for my MS in the same. I just could not bear any more nursing classes. My goal is to contract with home health agencies for nutritional visits or to teach at the college level.
    I hope your experience on this board after you decided to leave nursing,was different from mine. If we could get people to talk about thier dissatisfaction, it might be an interesting discussion, but the agitators that roam the boards will never allow an intelligent discussion on that topic to go unharrassed. Are you still selling pharmaceuticals?

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