Class, Race, and Social Issues - page 7

by TheCommuter 10,887 Views | 71 Comments Senior Moderator

Issues such as race and social class can rub peoplesí nerves the wrong way, especially if one uses poor wording or an inappropriate tone during discussion. For this reason, I will try to generate discourse regarding the... Read More


  1. 0
    Ok, getting off the race side of the thread and addressing the socioeconomic half. I would be really interested in reading a study comparing underprivileged young minorities (whose parents were not for them attending a college or university) who decide to pursue a degree vs underprivileged white people (same thing-parents were against them pursuing degree). I'd like to see if there is a significant variation between the 2 of the groups outcomes ie "Did they finish? " "Did they obtain the degree and get employment?" "Was the employment obtained actually in their field of study?" After all, If someone gets a degree in mechanical engineering and winds up waiting tables, then the degree is worthless.

    Can anyone direct me towards a study like that? Is anyone here familiar with a similar study?
  2. 1
    Quote from PRICHARILLAisMISSED
    Ok, getting off the race side of the thread and addressing the socioeconomic half. I would be really interested in reading a study comparing underprivileged young minorities (whose parents were not for them attending a college or university) who decide to pursue a degree vs underprivileged white people (same thing-parents were against them pursuing degree). I'd like to see if there is a significant variation between the 2 of the groups outcomes ie "Did they finish? " "Did they obtain the degree and get employment?" "Was the employment obtained actually in their field of study?" After all, If someone gets a degree in mechanical engineering and winds up waiting tables, then the degree is worthless.

    Can anyone direct me towards a study like that? Is anyone here familiar with a similar study?

    so you want to see research or statistics on who is getting hired more often, blacks or whites? and that is your way "getting off of the race side" of this thread?

    and how will you be able to sort out the impacts of long standing, institutional, systemic racism, if it turns out, that whites (poor or rich) get hired more often, and promoted more easily, than blacks? (poor or rich).


    also, "having parents who were against getting a degree"
    would be hard to measure for researc, as that is subjective, based upon the person answering feelings and recollections.

    Despite anecdotal stories, most parents, whether rich or poor, are generally "for" education, but, some might feel it is out of their realm of posibilities,
    or is unaffordable, or such a foreign idea to their own frame of reference,
    which is not quite the same thing as being "against" education...but, there are parents who are "against" education, to varying degrees, but, the vast bulk of parents are "for" education.

    My own parents, poverty stricken immigrants, only encouraged the males in the family to go for college, as sending us ALL was not gonna happen. Just financially impossible.
    Oh, they'd be "for" their daughters going, if they could have afforded it.
    so, being female child of that family, i found my own way to pay for college. I understood the difficult choice my parents had to make, in only sending male children to college. They did the best they could, and they were from another era, than young parents today live in.
    Last edit by somenurse on Jan 23, '13
    Trilldayz,RN BSN likes this.
  3. 0
    Quote from Jean Marie46514
    so you want to see research or statistics on who is getting hired more often, blacks or whites? and that is your way "getting off of the race side" of this thread?


    Yes ma'am, it is actually. All of my previous posts were strictly on the race issue of the thread. That is why I asked if anyone knew of an existing study involving underprivileged college students, both minority and not minority. I'm curious as to whether the success rates in both obtaining the degree, and obtaining employment in a related field of the degree are significantly different. I'm hoping that the success rates between both groups are close to being identical, but if they're not well, then they're not and that would tell us that a problem does exist (if the only difference between the 2 groups were racial). If this is the case then the results have to be dissected even further (were both groups qualified for the same financial aid? And things of that nature).

    and how will you be able to sort out the impacts of long standing, institutional, systemic racism, if it turns out, that whites (poor or rich) get hired more often, and promoted more easily, than blacks? (poor or rich).

    Honestly, at first I would like to just be happy to read the study, figure out exactly what the studies' conductors were trying to find out, and determine whether or not it may have been biased in either direction (An example of what I mean by a biased study can be found in most studies "proving" that CRNA's should be supervised at all times by Anesthesiologists due to the Anesthesiologists' concern for the pt's safety, as well them claiming that CRNA's shouldn't be allowed to perform certain procedures period (though they were taught how to perform these procedures. Just ridiculous) . Granted I am not part of either one of those 2 groups, and frankly I'm not qualified to say whether the Anesthesiologists' should supervise or not, or whether the CRNA's should be allowed to perform the procedures in question or not. BUT, by reading their studies and reasons backing up pt's safety I CAN tell you that they (the Anesthesiologist) are coming off as VERY desperate. Maybe there are OTHER reasons beyond pt safety that would help the Anesthesiologists' out in their cause, but definitely not the ones they're trying to parade. Anyway, if you look up many of these studies [and read them] you'll see what I mean when I speak of "A biased study").


    also, "having parents who were against getting a degree"
    would be hard to measure for researc, as that is subjective, based upon the person answering feelings and recollections.

    True, Ma'am. The participants in the study would have to disclose that their parents were against them going to college. The OP herself is one such college grad. But yes, It would pose a bit of difficulty isolating students whose parents were against them obtaining the degree. But, Their data can still be used for the economic portion of the study, at least.

    Despite anecdotal stories, most parents, whether rich or poor, are generally "for" education, but, some might feel it is out of their realm of posibilities,
    or is unaffordable, or such a foreign idea to their own frame of reference,
    which is not quite the same thing as being "against" education...but, there are parents who are "against" education, to varying degrees, but, the vast bulk of parents are "for" education.

    Again, I agree. Keep in mind that the parent's being against the degree is just one part of the study I'm asking for a reference to. The economic portion of it can be insightful as well. That being said, I've met a few people whose parents strongly recommended them to skip a higher education and just get a job. Some minority, some not. Luckily I met them in college, and most are doing fairly well today.

    My own parents, poverty stricken immigrants, only encouraged the males in the family to go for college, as sending us ALL was not gonna happen. Just financially impossible.
    Oh, they'd be "for" their daughters going, if they could have afforded it.
    so, being female child of that family, i found my own way to pay for college. I understood the difficult choice my parents had to make, in only sending male children to college. They did the best they could, and they were from another era, than young parents today live in.

    If this happened today, it would upset me. However, back before say, the 70's women rights were not recognized by the general public like they are today (It is unfortunate yes, I'm just saying that is how it was-I definitely wish that weren't so). So if funds were limited, well your parents probably made the wise choice (as back then even with a degree a woman would have had a much harder time finding degree related work than her brothers with the same degree would have. I'm just happy that the case is different today-I have 2 daughters to worry about
    I hope this cleared some things up, Ma'am.

    Also, Let me clarify something while I remember...

    I think that you and some other posters may think that I'm saying that nothing is racist and everything can be summed up as ignorant. That is not what I mean. I was just saying that just because something could be taken as an insult, doesn't mean it was meant that way. The way I see things, if someone didn't mean to insult me then I really won't get upset at them. I may correct them, yes, but if they don't know, they just don't know. Now if they continue the behavior after they were educated then **** yeah, we would have a problem. Conversely, if something was obviously meant as a derogatory remark then yes, it would be racist right off the bat and should be treated as such. I just don't want every questionable word to automatically be taken negatively, you know. That creates problems. Unnecessary problems.

    One more thing I'd like to add. When someone is being discriminated against, I believe they should do everything in their power to to put a stop to it. But something that really bothers me is when people try to take credit (I know this isn't the right term, but I think you guys know what I'm getting at. If not let me know and I'll do my best to clarify) for racial acts that were made towards others of their race, but not to themselves. Honestly, it does make me mad when someone who is a minority acts like every act of discrimination that ever happened to someone else of their race gives them the right to act like they themselves were the victim of that particular act. I personally find that behavior to be extremely disrespectful to the people who actually did go through the act. It is an insult to them. I have 2 cousins in particular who grate my nerves doing that. They've never lifted a finger to help another Black person (or anyone else, really. Oh btw I'm talking about 2 of my Black cousins here), yet when something happens (especially if it makes the news) they jump on the bandwagon and they act personally insulted by it. Keep in mind, They don't do anything constructive to help out the situation. They just talk about how "White America is ******* over the brotha's and sista's" as they get drunk and high. One of the 2 even admits that he personally has never been discriminated against, ever. But like most human beings, I guess they just want to be a part of something. The other one-his sister-says she has been racially discriminated against. I found out she really was-but it was by other Black people, mostly "Yellow" comments. Yet she still finds a way to blame "White America." Now her, I honestly think would be a full blown racist if she didn't have white relatives. As for my male cousin, we were inseparable as kids all the way through our teenage years-(our family and friends used to call us "Vanilla" and "Chocolate" [in that order because I'm by far the most important of the pair ] and I hate that he thinks the way that he does. His thinking like that makes me see him as needy and pathetic. And I hate seeing him that way.
    Last edit by PRICHARILLAisMISSED on Jan 24, '13
  4. 0
    Pricharilla,
    nothing in your reply, negates the fact, that comparing the hiring rates of blacks to whites-------- is in any way, moving the topic off of racism. The fact you yourself don't understand that, gives me pause.
    Not that this thread has to be moved off of the topic of racism, as, racism is part of this thread's topic. but, your remark, (para) "Now, i will move topic off of racism, lets talk about who gets hired more, poor blacks or poor whites." is amazing to me.

    WHOOOOSHhhhhhhh.

    Pricharilla, another of the many things that bother me a bit about your style of 'logic', includes, that fairly often, you offer dramatic, sometimes odd, anecdotal stories, and you seem to be taking that one person, or that one event,
    and trying to extrapolate the story out over all or most of the racial group you are describing. This might not be your point, but, it often seems to be what you are doing. (para) "See? my black cousin just a loser" as if implying your black cousin is somehow representative of a person complaining of very very valid complaints of racism.

    I'm sorry your cousin is a loser, but, in no way, does your cousin's story, or any of your other pals' stories, invalidate my point----- that racism does exist.

    I am glad you at least say that you do agree that racism does exist. Athough the only black person you know of who has experienced racism, was treated badly by other black people, for being too pale.

    There are so so many remarks in your monograph there, in your post,
    that don't follow what *I* feel are logical points, at all, but, if you do not seem to be grasping even my most obvious of points, (like how is comparing the hiring rates of blacks to whites moving "off" of the topic of racism?? or, where would this person live who has no other examples to break their stereotype?? etc etc)
    so i kinda doubt,
    you'd be able to follow my disagreement with these two remarks of yours, (almost back to back, too!)

    //" Honestly, it doesmake me mad when someone who is a minority acts like every act of discrimination that ever happened to someone else of their race gives them the right to act like they themselves were the victim of that particular act"//

    I myself have marched, protested, and written letters against acts of discrimination which did not involve me, or my own particular race,
    as i DO agree with your one remark here====>

    //" When someone is being discriminated against, I believe they should do everything in their power to to put a stop to it."//


    NO doubt, you will reply with yet another extreme story of a loser cousin or loser schoolmate, who --wait! wait! let me tell it. I am getting the hang of debating you ---------------- whatever point you want to make, you come up an extreme cousin or friend, who did some outrageous behavior, as if THAT person actually IS what i am talking about.
    Uhm, okay, you have a cousin, who just sat around drinking all day, because they saw someone else being discriminated against. Am i right? and so based on this loser cousin, you feel justified in making remarks like, //"Honestly, it does make me mad when someone who is a minority acts like every act of discrimination that ever happened to someone else of their race gives them the right to act like they themselves were the victim of that particular act"//
    still, identifying your anger IS a big step.




    Oh, and btw, "IF this happened today"??? Sexism did not "end" in the 1970s, at all, it still exists today. It is getting better each generation, but, it is NO way "over". When i was young, i also marched to support women who were discriminated against, even though it was not *me*. But, maybe that would make you "mad". Or, wait, wait, i bet you have a cousin,
    who is a woman------ who saw another woman be discriminated against--------- so she just sits and drinks all day, or became a hooker, or something.
    I can almost predict your replies by now.

    Overall, Pricharilla, while i recognize your passion on this topic, and your willingness to discuss this topic, and your willingness to share multiple stories of loser individuals you hang around with,
    i am getting impression, that your insights are skewed by your wish to maintain your own concept which includes sweeping generalizations based on flawed logic, like

    "It's minorities who are most racist--cuz that is the group that was racist to ME"


    and alllllll the "see, look at my loser black cousin!" and several other remarks, which lead you to conclusions that almost make me gasp now and then. Pricharilla, you seem like you have your heels dug in, that only black people are racist, (the only black person you know of who has experienced racism, was treated badly by other black people, for being too pale)
    and i feel badly you run with such an angry bunch of losers, just one after the other, after the other,
    and hope that you somehow are able to surround yourself with better examples of diverse human beings at some point in your future---individuals who have encountered actual racism, but did not deteriate into racist drunks. Until then, maybe a class in black history, or in understanding racism, (yes, there are such classes!) might give you some insights beyond what you are able to grasp from interacting with your loser black cousin.
    just a thought.
    oh, also, if you get your "news" from Faux news, you might want to consider taking a break of that "news" channel, as that channel does do everything they can to promote ideas similar to yours---that racism is over/being "over-reacted" to, and not usually "real"--but, instead, is just someone being "too sensitive".

    It might be, that you and i won't ever have same perception--or even be able to understand each other---- on the very complex problems of racism (or sexism, either).
    Last edit by somenurse on Jan 24, '13
  5. 1
    Quote from Jean Marie46514
    Pricharilla,
    nothing in your reply, negates the fact, that comparing the hiring rates of blacks to whites-------- is in any way, moving the topic off of racism. The fact you yourself don't understand that, gives me pause.

    That fact doesn't have to be negated. I wanted to approach the economic factor of the topic, as all of the posts of mine previous were directed exclusively toward race. Unfortunately, as the topic addressed deals with race and economics and the importance of their roles in predicting college success, it would have made little sense to move ahead and purposely exclude the race factor. Me saying that I wanted to move away from the race portion of the topic was in hindsight a mistake. I did not realize that my words were going under a microscope and being dissected, bit by bit. I assumed that the spirit of my words would matter more than the letter, as I thought this was a forum and not a court of law. I'll try to choose my words on AN more carefully in the future, Ma'am. Thank you for pointing out to me that I should treat this as a Doctorate level thesis, and not as people having a friendly discussion.

    The thread was about the ops belief that economics and back ground plays a stronger role than race in predicting the students success or lack of success in their pursuit of a degree. I was asking if anyone knew of a study that compared poor white/minority students success in college. The study would either support her opinion or not.

    And I'm still asking, though it appears the answer is "No."

    Not that this thread has to be moved off of the topic of racism, as, racism is part of this thread's topic. but, your remark, (para) "Now, i will move topic off of racism, lets talk about who gets hired more, poor blacks or poor whites." is amazing to me.

    I addressed this above.

    Pricharilla, another of the many things that bother me a bit about your style of 'logic', includes, that fairly often, you offer dramatic, sometimes odd, anecdotal stories, and you seem to be taking that one person, or that one event,
    and trying to extrapolate the story out over all or most of the racial group you are describing. This might not be your point, but, it often seems to be what you are doing.

    I apologize that I did not have these instances camcordered (I know "Camcordered" isn't a real word, but I like it. feel free to deduct points as you see fit ) as they happened Ma'am, for I had no idea that 15-20 years later the tape could have aided me in this particular discussion. Sorry for the sarcasm Ms Jean Marie, but unless I'm misinterpreting your words, I take it that you don't believe that my own life experiences should bear any weight on my own opinion on the racial climate of this country-well unless they make my opinion match your own, anyway. If they did, I believe that you'd likely take those stories as gospel.


    (para) "See? my black cousin just a loser" as if implying your black cousin is somehow representative of a person complaining of very very valid complaints of racism.

    And it also seems that you completely missed the point behind those anecdotal stories that "bother you a bit" anyway, as shown by the above sentence. I would have no problem with him or anyone else complaining of racism-as I will say yet again-It. Does. Exist. Not one time on this thread, or in my life did I ever claim it does not. However, what I will say is that the number of people who ARE victims of racism is FAR, FAR LOWER than the number of people who claim to be victims of racism. Anyway, my problem with my cousin's actions (which mirror many other's, it's NOT just him! And yes, I have a problem with others who do it as well) is that he acts as he PERSONALLY is the victim of these racial incidences and treats the incidences as such. THAT is what I find pathetic-wanting to be seen as a victim, when you PERSONALLY are not a victim. I'm all for defending others, but I am not for doing so simply in hopes of getting something out of it for yourself. And people who claim to be victims of racism that are not victims ARE hoping to get something out of it (sympathy, for instance. Or being able to blame others for the way their life is turning out, and not taking responsibility for their own bad decisions. Also, they get to be part of a large group. I believe this may be the biggest factor-the automatic acceptance into a group. Now, since you have taken the liberty to put words in my mouth on several occaissions-this will be addressed,- I feel I should point out that this ONLY applies to those that claim to be victims, but are not. ONLY THEM! Not the actual victims. The actual victims are encouraged to fight back through any means necessary, and If I can lend a hand, let me know. But if they are not a real victim but just claim to be, then "YES!" I am talking to and about them. Also, to nip this in the bud so I don't get a crazy response, let me say that if, hypothetically, I am just completely wrong and there is in fact not a single soul who is faking being a victim, and I am simply delusional, then this would not apply to anyone, right? So no need to tell me how insensitive I am or that I'm a racist, OK? Because I am admitting that if I am delusional then everything I said is invalid anyway).


    I'm sorry your cousin is a loser, but, in no way, does your cousin's story, or any of your other pals' stories, invalidate my point----- that racism does exist.

    As stated above, "Yes," racism does exist.

    And I never said my cousin is a loser. I can live with him being a loser-being a loser means he tried and failed. I'm ok with that (in fact I've been a loser myself. No, really lol). I said he is pathetic. That is much worse. But yeah, I'm sorry too.


    I am glad you at least say that you do agree that racism does exist. Athough the only black person you know of who has experienced racism, was treated badly by other black people, for being too pale.


    And this is the latest example of what I was talking about above about you putting words in my mouth, Ma'am. I never said Lisa was the only Black person I know that experienced racism. Never even implied it. She was an example of a Black person I know who experienced racism-which happened to be by Black people. Yet she still has a chip on her shoulder towards White ppl. She really does blame white people for the racism that was geared towards her by Black people. I also said I believe this is so because she is one of the people who I spoke of above (you know, the ones that I may be delusional about? Those).


    There are so so many remarks in your monograph there, in your post,
    that don't follow what *I* feel are logical points, at all, but, if you do not seem to be grasping even my most obvious of points, (like how is comparing the hiring rates of blacks to whites moving "off" of the topic of racism?? or, where would this person live who has no other examples to break their stereotype?? etc etc)
    so i kinda doubt,
    you'd be able to follow my disagreement with these two remarks of yours, (almost back to back, too!)

    //" Honestly, it doesmake me mad when someone who is a minority acts like every act of discrimination that ever happened to someone else of their race gives them the right to act like they themselves were the victim of that particular act"//

    All of this was addressed above, I believe.

    I myself have marched, protested, and written letters against acts of discrimination which did not involve me, or my own particular race,
    as i DO agree with your one remark here====>

    //" When someone is being discriminated against, I believe they should do everything in their power to to put a stop to it."//

    Like I stated above Ma'am. It's one thing to support actions against racism that did not directly involve you. Good on you and keep it up as necessary, please! All I ask is that you do it for the right reasons, and not one of the selfish one's I describe above (Not saying that IS why you did it, Ms. Jean Marie. I'm sure you did do it for the right reasons).


    NO doubt, you will reply with yet another extreme story of a loser cousin or loser schoolmate, who --wait! wait! let me tell it. I am getting the hang of debating you ---------------- whatever point you want to make, you come up an extreme cousin or friend, who did some outrageous behavior, as if THAT person actually IS what i am talking about.
    Uhm, okay, you have a cousin, who just sat around drinking all day, because they saw someone else being discriminated against. Am i right? and so based on this loser cousin, you feel justified in making remarks like, //"Honestly, it does make me mad when someone who is a minority acts like every act of discrimination that ever happened to someone else of their race gives them the right to act like they themselves were the victim of that particular act"//
    still, identifying your anger IS a big step.

    No, I'm not going to do that, Ma'am. I now fully understand that you are absolutely locked in your ways of thinking. Anything less than a signed letter from God saying that I may have a point will not be good enough. There would be no point in me giving you any more examples on anything. You would simply dismiss it, rearrange it to make it look like I am saying something not even close to what I was saying, and then repeat yet again that racism does exist (even though I have been in agreement to that the entire post. BTW I am aware of the fact that just you saying that "racism does exist" implies to others that I claim it doesn't. I forget what the tactic is called (my Philosophy 102-critical thinking-class was years ago), but even if I defend myself it still makes me look at least a little racist, being that I'm white. The best I can do is ignore it and take some damage as addressing it in any way adds racist connotations to any posts I type and puts a negative light on me and will almost always be worse than just me ignoring it.

    Also, I would like to know what me identifying my anger "IS a big step" toward. More importantly, what is it a big step from, as taking a "Big step" from something implies I'm making progress towards something positive and stepping away from something negative?

    Oh, and btw, "IF this happened today"??? Sexism did not "end" in the 1970s, at all, it still exists today. It is getting better each generation, but, it is NO way "over". When i was young, i also marched to support women who were discriminated against, even though it was not *me*. But, maybe that would make you "mad". Or, wait, wait, i bet you have a cousin,
    who is a woman------ who saw another woman be discriminated against--------- so she just sits and drinks all day, or became a hooker, or something.
    I can almost predict your replies by now.

    Of course sexism still exist lol. If it didn't, then that would be one less thing that can be used by a group to be considered victims, and therefore win sympathies and excuses for their lives not being quite what it "would have been if they were a man." There is no way that women will ever say it doesn't exist. Some individual women may, sure. But as a group? NOOOOO. Not in my Great, great, great grand children's lifetimes will that happen. Whether sexism exist or not, as far as women (as a group, anyway) are concerned, IT EXISTS.

    Overall, Pricharilla, while i recognize your passion on this topic, and your willingness to discuss this topic, and your willingness to share multiple stories of loser individuals you hang around with,
    i am getting impression, that your insights are skewed by your wish to maintain your own concept which includes sweeping generalizations based on flawed logic, like

    "It's minorities who are most racist--cuz that is the group that was racist to ME"


    Again you are absolutely right, Ma'am. After all it is a known fact that White people are the bad guys. ALWAYS. In absolutely every instance. It was stupid of me to say otherwise. I mean, it's our mission to do everything possible to make the lives of minorities as miserable as they can be. I'm not supposed to tell you this (or any other minority, for that matter, so this is between us, ok?), but when us White people have our monthly meeting to discuss ways to make the lives of minorities ****, I was told at the last one to go on this forum and say that nonsense about me being racially discriminated against, just to see the reaction. Seriously. Also, While I wasn't lying when I said I lived in really poor and bad neighborhood while I was growing up, I didn't tell the whole truth. You see, after I went into my roach infested apartment at night, I then entered the tube in my floor (like on the Jetsons) and was whisked to my real place on "White island," Where me and all of the US's "White people" really live. My family was just one of the unlucky ones to draw the short straw and have to associate with minorities to keep an eye on them, and make sure our plans to make them miserable are working-can't leave stuff like that to chance you know... :sarcasm:

    And it is not that I am passionate about the topic, Ma'am. But I did hope to shed some light on it for readers from the perspective of a White guy. But it was a waste of time as some who have read what I posted had absolutely no intentions of keeping an open mind about anything I say. All some readers want to do is disagree with anything that goes against how they already feel about the subject (although they do feel that they are justified in this-for their own reasons, whatever they may be), and agree with anything that matched their own opinion before reading even the first word of any post.

    and alllllll the "see, look at my loser black cousin!" and several other remarks, which lead you to conclusions that almost make me gasp now and then. Pricharilla, you seem like you have your heels dug in, that only black people are racist, (the only black person you know of who has experienced racism, was treated badly by other black people, for being too pale)
    and i feel badly you run with such an angry bunch of losers, just one after the other, after the other,
    and hope that you somehow are able to surround yourself with better examples of diverse human beings at some point in your future---individuals who have encountered actual racism, but did not deteriate into racist drunks. Until then, maybe a class in black history, or in understanding racism, (yes, there are such classes!) might give you some insights beyond what you are able to grasp from interacting with your loser black cousin.
    just a thought.
    oh, also, if you get your "news" from Faux news, you might want to consider taking a break of that "news" channel, as that channel does do everything they can to promote ideas similar to yours---that racism is over/being "over-reacted" to, and not usually "real"--but, instead, is just someone being "too sensitive".

    It might be, that you and i won't ever have same perception--or even be able to understand each other---- on the very complex problems of racism (or sexism, either).
    I'm not going to bother with the rest.

    BTW Ma'am, that last response was meant to be sarcastic but also as a joke. I'm not trying to insult your intelligence or anything, but it just seems like you are in fact one of the people that I refer to that sees racism when it isn't there (though in your defense I do believe that you personally were a victim of discrimination at some point. I also acknowledge that you in fact still could be today. But definitely I believe you were at some point in the past, which is why your arguments against me do not upset me as they would coming from one of those fake victims). And I know I'll never get through to you, but I do hope you some day you fix it on your own (even though I understand that you do not believe at this point that there is anything that needs to be fixed.) You seem like a good person who has suffered things in life that permanently twisted your view on the world. And Yes, I believe that you personally along with the rest of the minorities of your generation suffered terrible injustices. I'm sorry that happened. I truly am. I hope that someday you and those of your peers that went through those ordeals someday realize that letting go doesn't mean that you are turning a blind eye to, or denying that they happened. But it would mean that you finally got the better it and really got control of your life. I say this because every time you see racism that isn't there, every time that twist things around to defend an argument that something was racist when it wasn't, then you are letting those terrible events from your past dictate the way you see and react now. You give your past control over your present and future.
    Last edit by PRICHARILLAisMISSED on Jan 26, '13
    Trilldayz,RN BSN likes this.
  6. 2
    Of course social class plays the bigger role. Most places of employment, and almost all colleges, practice affirmative action. This practice allows certain races, such as African Americans and Latinos, to have a slight boost in the admission process to ensure they have enough of them to have a diverse freshman class.

    Despite this advantage, AAs and latinos still have lower college attendance rates than whites or asians, which many people falsely attribute to race. It's not the race - it's the socioeconomic status. The variable that confuses people is that african americans and latinos are unfortunately more likely to be lower income. It's unfortunate, and there is definitely some racism still at play in certain positions, but socioeconomic status is definitely a bigger predictor.
    PRICHARILLAisMISSED and zoe92 like this.
  7. 0
    To Pricharilla,
    YOUdescribe several events in this thread,
    where you felt you were a victim of discrimination(because some black person called you names)
    and conclude
    that "blacks are most racist, cuz the person who was racist to ME belonged to that group"
    and those in your own ethnic group, have not been racist to YOU....

    .............apparently unaware of the obvious flaw in your logic there, that i've tried a few times to help you understand, but, near as i can tell, you still don't get why that is a very questionable way to make a conclusion.




    and
    you state,
    amazingly,
    that the only discrimination you know of, towards blacks, was FROM other blacks, (an amazing statement, really---says a LOT about your knowledge base on this topic)
    and
    you accuse ME of making conclusions based too much on my own experience? really? *I'M* the one doing that, eh?

    oh my.
    but, i will agree with one remark, that you and i will probably never see eye to eye on this topic.
    Last edit by somenurse on Jan 27, '13
  8. 0
    ^I see both of your points. Racism definitely works both ways.

    To claim there is more racism from whites toward blacks today, despite history, is simply wrong. The difference is that when black people act racist no one says anything about it - people are only angry when WHITE people are racist. There are plenty of examples of blacks being more racists than whites - look at the 2008 Democratic Primary, when Obama won millions of votes from whites, yet Hillary got 1-2% of the black vote. No one called that racist...yet if Obama had only received 1-2% of the white vote, everyone would cry racism. In fact, they still cried racism at the fact that EVERY SINGLE white person didn't vote for him.

    Look at the FBI hate crime statistics by race (http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/u...-Race-2009.jpg) . It's quite eye opening... you can see of the 3,518 whites murdered in 2009, 12.9% were murdered by blacks. Of the 2,867 blacks murdered, 7% were murdered by whites. In other words, it's almost twice as likely for a white person to be murdered by a black person than vice versa. Black on white racism is VERY present in our society - it simply doesn't draw the same liberal rage as white on black racism.

    Bottom line - all races have racist people.
    Last edit by IcySageNurse on Jan 27, '13
  9. 0
    Quote from IcySageNurse
    ^I see both of your points. Racism definitely works both ways.

    To claim there is more racism from whites toward blacks today, despite history, is simply wrong. The difference is that when black people act racist no one says anything about it - people are only angry when WHITE people are racist. There are plenty of examples of blacks being more racists than whites - look at the 2008 Democratic Primary, when Obama won millions of votes from whites, yet Hillary got 1-2% of the black vote. No one called that racist...yet if Obama had only received 1-2% of the white vote, everyone would cry racism. In fact, they still cried racism at the fact that EVERY SINGLE white person didn't vote for him.

    Look at the FBI hate crime statistics by race (http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/u...-Race-2009.jpg) . It's quite eye opening... you can see of the 3,518 whites murdered in 2009, 12.9% were murdered by blacks. Of the 2,867 blacks murdered, 7% were murdered by whites. In other words, it's almost twice as likely for a white person to be murdered by a black person than vice versa. Black on white racism is VERY present in our society - it simply doesn't draw the same liberal rage as white on black racism.

    Bottom line - all races have racist people.
    You are linking to The Blaze?oop: A rightwing "news"(?) site??? oh my, might as well link us to Glenn Beck's blog for "facts".Many rightwingers are fear-driven, and many sites like The Blaze do all they can to subtly(or blalantly) skew "news" (or even lie) to keep fear going, fear= it's their "fuel".

    But, if you would remove or factor in,
    the socioeconomic status,
    of crimes done,
    the results would be dramatically different. It's easy enough to find tons of research, which will back up any claim that violent crime is far more prevalent in poverty stricken areas. I'll link one if you doubt it.

    Poverty and crime always go together, always,
    throughout history,
    in every nation.

    I am not entirely certain, that crime, and racism/oppression, are the exact same thing. I honestly think, one white person can kill another white person, without how they feel about the victim being white being a factor. Not all murders are "racism". And true, most murders are done by someone of your own race, whether you are white, or black, or asian, or latino, or whatever.
    Most murder victims are murdered by those in their same race.


    and, no one (except Pricharilla, off and on,) has made claim only one group is racist, so, i surely can't defend what i never ever said. I have said, a few times on this thread, that a racist can belong to any racial group, a few times,
    but, Pricharilla seems to suggest only blacks are racist, a remark i find amazing. She's made several remarks i find amazing, actually, but, reposting allllll those remarks,
    and why i find the logic used so lacking,
    won't be helpful.

    I agree, all groups cna have racist people. I myself have more ability to understand an individual who HAS been oppressed, end up struggling to deal with a racist feeling
    as a result of actually having been oppressed,------------THAT'S more easy for me to undertand,
    as i explained in reply #39,............ but not everyone shares that understanding, of the difference between someone who HAS BEEN oppressed having trouble trusting another race, compared to someone who hasn't been oppressed because of their race.

    Also, the ability of one group being able to actually oppress a group, might be whole other interesting derail to have, too. I support the right of any whacko to hold his own brain whatever stereotypes he wants to hold,
    but,
    if the whacko is in charge of the interest rates you pay, the chance of your being pulled over after doing nothing wrong, the chance of your being arrested/convicted/sentenced to death, the chance of you getting hired, promoted, etc etc,
    that's what most of us who are against racism worry about.

    but, there ARE some people who seem to still think, it's an even playing field now for all races,
    and seem to not spot a difference
    between having an inner bad attitude
    and
    being able to oppress the person.
    Last edit by somenurse on Jan 27, '13
  10. 0
    Quote from Jean Marie46514

    You are linking to The Blaze?oop: A rightwing "news"(?) site??? oh my, might as well link us to Glenn Beck's blog for "facts".Many rightwingers are fear-driven, and many sites like The Blaze do all they can to subtly(or blalantly) skew "news" (or even lie) to keep fear going, fear= it's their "fuel".

    But, if you would remove or factor in,
    the socioeconomic status,
    of crimes done,
    the results would be dramatically different. It's easy enough to find tons of research, which will back up any claim that violent crime is far more prevalent in poverty stricken areas. I'll link one if you doubt it.

    Poverty and crime always go together, always,
    throughout history,
    in every nation.
    I am not entirely certain, that crime, and racism/oppression, are the exact same thing. I honestly think, one white person can kill another white person, without how they feel about the victim being white being a factor. Not all murders are "racism". And true, most murders are done by someone of your own race, whether you are white, or black, or asian, or latino, or whatever.
    Most murder victims are murdered by those in their same race.

    and, no one (except Pricharilla, off and on,) has made claim only one group is racist, so, i surely can't defend what i never ever said. I have said, a few times on this thread, that a racist can belong to any racial group, a few times,
    but, Pricharilla seems to suggest only blacks are racist, a remark i find amazing. She's made several remarks i find amazing, actually, but, reposting allllll those remarks,
    and why i find the logic used so lacking,
    won't be helpful.

    I agree, all groups cna have racist people. I myself have more ability to understand an individual who HAS been oppressed, end up struggling to deal with a racist feeling
    as a result of actually having been oppressed,------------THAT'S more easy for me to undertand,
    as i explained in reply #39,............ but not everyone shares that understanding, of the difference between someone who HAS BEEN oppressed having trouble trusting another race, compared to someone who hasn't been oppressed because of their race.

    Also, the ability of one group being able to actually oppress a group, might be whole other interesting derail to have, too. I support the right of any whacko to hold his own brain whatever stereotypes he wants to hold,
    but,
    if the whacko is in charge of the interest rates you pay, the chance of your being pulled over after doing nothing wrong, the chance of your being arrested/convicted/sentenced to death, the chance of you getting hired, promoted, etc etc,
    that's what most of us who are against racism worry about.

    but, there ARE some people who seem to still think, it's an even playing field now for all races,
    and seem to not spot a difference
    between having an inner bad attitude
    and
    being able to oppress the person.
    I have decided to return to this thread...I have been sitting on the sidelines.

    Jean Marie, This post is pretty spot on and logical.

    This issue can stir emotions. Pricharrilla, this has certainly stirred your emotions.

    I hope you can both clarify for me-just curious because we all can't be seen on AN...Pricharrilla, you are a white male, correct??? And I didn't get the sense Jean Marie is AA...but if you are I apologize, it's just Pricharrilla alludes to you as AA, yet I didn't see it in the posts. I know Pricharrilla has alluded his race in the posts.

    As a AA, I can see the narrowed view that you have Pricharrilla because of the negative experiences that you had, however, how you describe it as reactionary racism on the pursuer's part...I got that when you had the fight the individual who thought you were "poisoning" you're girlfriend's mind...but on the other hand, people who live, support and are around AA have been viewed by some whites, especially historically in the south as "n" lovers, so at that point, could it be surmised as the same type of racism?

    And IcySage, those stats are truly off base...please refer to a more thorough database, such as the DOJ, Southern Poverty law center and even the CDC, even academic based databases, and real time data can blow that out of the water. Jean Marie has addressed your view point...socioeconomic pathology of generation of poverty against minorities couldn't have possibly happened if there wasn't a "majority" rule that had introduced "redlining" to ensure how certain populations stayed in particular area...and this wasn't happening only in the South...this has happened in cities, suburbs, and rural towns for generations, businesses don't invest in these "redlined" areas, driving the price down, the crime up and the attitude that these "animals" can do "us" all a favor for population control...when that happens, the almighty gentrification rule sprouts out to ensue control...trying to do the trick...and don't get me wrong, redlining has displaced socioeconomic defunct individuals of all races and cultures, and I have had conversations in how people regardless of race refer to poverty stricken people as "animals"...however, there's too strong of a TREND of the poverty gap and the risks of going straight to poverty to minorities...when there are no banks (that don't come to a community to announce they plan to oust you to make it more "attractive" or give out risky loans to get seize property for twisted profit), grocery stores, and adequate community centers or access to universities to gain proper knowledge for a "even playing field," do you think they are going to be in constant survival mode, or that this is an adequately thriving community, with a straight face. I think people will beg to differ who live in deprived neighborhoods who would hunk their depressed community is "thriving" without these adequate resources. In my city, they just opened up a supermarket in a neighborhood section that hasn't had one in 40 YEARS...you can ask them their viewpoint about class, race, etc...and this is a redlined bright hood with ranges of poverty to working class upwardly mobile people who can't move in a "better"neighborhood., because the homes are going from 500,000 and up...rent is 1500-2000 dollars, no mortgage considerations, or rent to own, no options for those "commoners" to be considered, to live in a neighborhood that is safe, clean, family and culturally friendly...those neighborhoods are known to have a glass wall around them. Some love their neighborhood and want "a level playing field"...ALL the opportunities that a "well off" neighborhood has, without moving. Is that "right" or "racist"??? Ask the people in a community that I speak of...research and survey them.


Top