Accredited or not Accredited ?

[pat8585]

I read about the importance of a nursing school being accredited.

Ok...does this mean it must be accredited by the NLN?

If I go to a community college that is accredited but the program is not accredited

by NLN, am I up the creek when it comes to job hunting?

How important IS this accreditation?

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[KJoRN81, RN]

Well, this thread was highly confusing....

I am starting my clinicals at a (currently) non-accredited school. HOWEVER, they just started their ADN program, & they are listed on the Board of Nursing's website as an approved school. They are in the process of trying to get accredited, so I am not TOO worried...yet. If everything goes as planned, my school SHOULD BE accredited by July 2013...when I graduate.

I hope this doesn't backfire, but we'll see...

[Nbr1nurse]

Hi...This whole subject of accreditation is disturbing to me. Why is it that we have become a nation of nurses that our intelligence, education and competence has been decided & measured by two regional accrediting bodies? I went to a nursing school that is nationally accredited. Its a pay-for-profit school and in my particular city - nursing schools are very competitive and hard to get into. The school I picked was right for me. I had a very good educational experience although there had been some things I wasn't happy about but all-in-all, it prepared me for my state boards. Did it matter that it was a nationally accredited school? -No- Was my education inferior to that of regionally accredited schools? -No, I don't think so. I've talked to several nurses who have graduated from Community Colleges or Universities and they had a similar curiculum that I did during my college experience and had the same knowledge base that I had.- So, are these pay-for-profit nursing schools getting a bad rap? -Absolutely! I call it "Regionally accredited snobs". For those of you who were fortunate enough to go to the premier colleges and universities...I'm not trying to be disrespectful or diminish your educational experience. My point is that for an employer who has decided they were not going to hire a nurse who graduated from a nationally accredited school is not only discrimination, but it doesn't make any sense. We nationally accredited nursing students sat for the same boards as everyone else. Am I the only one who feels like theirs an issue here that needs clarification? Of course, we don't make the rules, but with more and more nursing schools popping up because of the demand for nurses - shouldn't this issue be addressed? It seems as though its either one of two things: 1) the regionally accredited nursing schools and universities are being bullies and pushing some sort of legislation that is black balling the smaller nursing schools or 2) its driven by the accreditation organisations who want to retain their superiority for their colleges student body and thereby retaining the upper hand with jobs.

I would love to hear others opinions on this subject. If their is something else going on that I'm not aware of, I'd love to know what it is. The whole thing is quite strange if you think about it for a minute. I mean, why is it that we are deciding on a school because of its accreditation? If you read about the accreditation process, it's not really that big of a deal to be qualified. These accrediting bodies don't keep tabs on the schools. The school has to pursue it; they pay money and meet the qualifications and then "kazam!" they're accredited. The main criteria is the school has to have had a certain amount of graduating students that have passed the state boards. I think the school has to be opened, of course, for a couple of years to attain this. Big deal.

So what does everyone think? I'd love to hear others opinions!

Lisa

[Nbr1nurse]

Also...another thing to remember is most of the private nursing colleges that are nationally accredited have partnered with regionally accredited universities that will take all of your credits. So that is something to check into with your school. If it's important that you get into school quick, and you don't want to go through the acceptance process of regionally accredited schools and wait a year or more to get into a nursing program - this is definately an option. You can get your accelerated ADN and then transfer your credits to another university like for instance, Walden University, which has an excellent online virtual school, and have your bachelors or Masters way before all those others who are standing in line to just get their ADN. They may not have the upper hand after all....

[SummitRN, BSN, RN]

Hi...This whole subject of accreditation is disturbing to me. Why is it that we have become a nation of nurses that our intelligence, education and competence has been decided & measured by two regional accrediting bodies?

There are two national nursing accrediting bodies and then there are regional academic bodies.

The national academic body is run by the for-profits and trade schools.

If accreditation offers some minimum guarantee that the average student from a program has had a program meeting certain standards, shouldn't other institutions desire students from accredited programs as mark of increased likelihood of quality education and a mark of future success Should employers desire graduates from accredited programs meeting certain standards? It is a good way to help sort hundreds of resumes, particularly with applicants from programs outside the employers area.

Or should employers and universities judge a program by a few sentences in your cover letter saying that you talked to people at other programs and you have determined for the employer that your program is of equal quality to others?

1) the regionally accredited nursing schools and universities are being bullies and pushing some sort of legislation that is black balling the smaller nursing schools or 2) its driven by the accreditation organisations who want to retain their superiority for their colleges student body and thereby retaining the upper hand with jobs.

For profits can aspire and achieve regional academic accreditation and national nursing accreditation if they choose to meet the standards. Most view it as an unnecessary hit on the bottom line. Students who don't have other options rarely prioritize accreditation in numbers large enough to prevent unaccredited schools from filling their rosters. Some for-profits have seen it as an achievable goal that is also a wise or even ethical business choice and pursued it.

If you read about the accreditation process, it's not really that big of a deal to be qualified.

So why don't they do it if it is really no-big-deal? I'll give you a hint: it is quite a big deal. It takes great effort and a little money. The investors don't see the point in it because there are students lined up out the door to pay top-dollar. Why bother? It doesn't help the bottom line. At many for-profit schools, the accreditation standards might directly hurt the bottom line by directly or indirectly forcing higher standards for admission, course quality, and staff. Some schools simply cannot meet it. Accreditation by one standard, defines a pass rate above the national average. Half the schools cannot meet that. Others would have to fail too many of their graduates via exit exams to achieve the goal.

[Nbr1nurse]

Hi SummitAP

Your funny with the whole conspiracy theory picture. Your sacrasm is noted... You're obviously a graduate from a regionally accredited program and feel far superior than us nationally accredited graduates. That's ok. I'm not insecure. I embrace my nationally accredited education and run with it. I've had no problems thus far except for employers who have decided this to be a factor in hiring me or not.

My point was mainly about employers who hire nurses based on whether they go to a regionally accredited school. I honestly can't think of one single reason they would choose a regionally accredited nurse over a nationally accredited nurse except for the fact that it's an employers market right now and with all of the new nurses graduating, they have the option to be picky. However, choosing a nurse because of the school is not right. Choosing a nurse because of their experience and competence, as well as having excellent references seems a little more fair. It takes the discrimatory element right off the table. I sat for the same boards as you did. And I passed. It had nothing to do with the accrediation. It had everything to do with a curriculum that was focused and a positively charged environment with instuctors who cared about the students becoming successful.

Your right about one thing though. Accreditation is very important and it's because society has unfortunately, made it so. We are a nation of sheep and when something has been placed in the high importance category, it doesn't take long for people to forget to ask why but instead just follow along. Then when someone is unfairly discriminated against for whatever reason, we all scramble to find out why. Well...some of us do anyway. Its the nature of humanity. AND the one's who have the upper hand, stand tall and true defending the discrimination saying that it's "valid" and "necessary".

I, for one, do not want to be judged negatively because I have worked just as hard as every other graduating nurse out there. In my school and most schools, the ones who can't cut it are weeded out. The one's who make it to graduation deserve it. They worked hard for it and for an employer to ask "Was your school regionally or nationally accredited?" should be inconsequential. It's invalidating and degrading. Even your remark

The national academic body is run by the for-profits and trade schools.

is snobby and stated like "national" is a dirty word for low lifes. Am I being a little sensitive? Maybe...but just like you, I am going to defend my education but not because of the accreditation but because it was a good education that prepared me for the state boards which I passed. {My state board exam stopped at 76. Not bad for a lowly nationally accredited nursing school student. I was outta there in a little over an hour.}

[nurseprnRN, BSN, RN]

I disagree. The accreditation that counts is the one from the state in which the school exists. It is the state that will set the rules for what you have to have to graduate and will be the ones to grant your license. The other agencies are independent and basically set their own standards. Could be a marketing gig so the school can attract students. If the BON says the school is in good standing that should be enough.

Problem here is that although some states allow grads from unaccredited or locally (state)-only approved programs to sit NCLEX and be licensed IN THAT STATE, moving to another state may mean that you find yourself unlicensed because State 2 doesn't recognize your education regardless of State 1's giving you a license. No state is OBLIGATED to accept another's license under those circumstances.

The unaccredited schools are counting on the fact that their prospective students are desperate or dumb enough not to know this. Now you know.

[Nbr1nurse]

Problem here is that although some states allow grads from unaccredited or locally (state)-only approved programs to sit NCLEX and be licensed IN THAT STATE, moving to another state may mean that you find yourself unlicensed because State 2 doesn't recognize your education regardless of State 1's giving you a license. No state is OBLIGATED to accept another's license under those circumstances.

This may or may not be true. I don't know. I've never heard of this happening to anyone. Regardless, why would you move to a state that didn't recognize your license for one thing. That's ignorant. Annoucement to all nurses: Please check the state your moving to and make sure they take your nursing license. Good lord! What a fiasco that would be!

The unaccredited schools are counting on the fact that their prospective students are desperate or dumb enough not to know this. Now you know.

The students who choose to go to nationally accredited schools may be desperate for the fact that they don't want to wait 2 years to get into a regionally accredited school just because it's regionally accredited. They actually are smart and creative...getting out into the work force much faster equiped by the same professional license that you have. I don't call that dumb. I call that ingenious for forging your own path instead of enduring the rules set up by some of these schools. I don't find that to be dumb at all.

[SummitRN, BSN, RN]

you … feel far superior than us nationally accredited graduates… I've had no problems thus far except for employers who have decided this to be a factor in hiring me or not.

I feel superior to no random internet persona based on school accreditation. That would be illogical. You could have an IQ of 180 with 20 years of experience a paramedic, RRT, then an LPN. I am not an employer. You and I have a discussion as two relatively anonymous individuals.

A potential employer doesn’t have 1000 labor-hours to interview 500 individuals. The potential employer only treats you as an individual once they have you sorted down to 5 resumes from 500. It is clear that you think this is unfair to you. It is a simple matter of economics. The rules of the world are not secret. It is silly to complain about them after the fact.

My point was mainly about employers who hire nurses based on whether they go to a regionally accredited school. … it's an employers market right now and with all of the new nurses graduating they have the option to be picky. However, choosing a nurse because of the school is not right. Choosing a nurse because of their experience and competence, as well as having excellent references seems a little more fair. It takes the discrimatory element right off the table. I sat for the same boards as you did. And I passed. It had nothing to do with the accrediation.

It is good that you understand it is an employers' market. That is reality. What would you have them do? 1 new grad opening gets 500 resumes from individuals who have met the BARE MINIMUM: passing the NCLEX. How shold they quickly sort that pile down by 99%? They can’t even afford to fully read 2500 pages of resumes, cover letters, and recommendations! What should they do? Hold that thought…

I do NOT think many employers ask for a regional academic accreditation. (vs national accreditation from ACICS which accredits for-profit trade schools). Reputable educational institutions require regional ACADEMIC accreditation for credits to transfer. Employers may look down on for-profits simply because for-profits typically (not all of them) have lower standards.

However, many employers (and educational institutions) do desire/require NATIONAL nursing accreditation from CCNE or NLNAC.

You are wrong that certain accreditation is valued because “we are a nation of sheep.” Respected accreditation is meant as a measured way to establish a minimum level of quality for institutions that carry the label. This phenomenon is a product of competitiveness in the marketplace and is demanded by employers who haven’t the time to microscopically examine each drop of the flood of new grad applicants. Accreditation works somewhat as a generalized measurement of quality, but it is imperfect because it treats people as a group instead of as an individual. Unfortunately, there cannot be a more fair system unless that system is also more economical.

The only alternative I can think of would be regulating the number of nursing program seats, thereby making nursing school entry even more competitive and reducing the labor pool, but some people would call that unfair too.

It is reality. It might not be ideal, but it is the way it has to be given the realities of the economy. The rules of the game were not a secret. Caveat emptor. You knew the rules put you at a disadvantage with your course, then you played the game anyway. I wish you the best of luck and greatest success in your nursing career.

[SummitRN, BSN, RN]

It should be noted that CCNE/NLN is just one method used by HR to knock out resumes.

It is my understanding that large piles of resumes are cut down by (in order):

1. Lack of desired specialized experience and certifications

2. Lack of general nursing experience and certifications

(now we are down to new grads)

3. Lack of related experience (LPN, nursing student intern/tech, CNA, EMT, Paramedic, RRT, corpseman, rotations at employer's facility, etc)

4. Program specifically known to be of questionable quality to employer

5. Lack of BSN and/or CCNE/NLN accrediation

I think that regional academic accreditation is not usually in unofficial HR quicklists list except that lack of it tends to correlate with #4.

[Nbr1nurse]

SummitAP

Wow... You sound just like an employer. Ok. good to know. I guess I'll have to try and outshine the other 499 applicants with my experience and competence because I sure the hell don't have a chance with my substandard education. Thank you for your enlightening input. And good luck to you as well.

[RNpearls1908]

Idk where the argument is. Point blank if you plan on going to grad school/ furthering your education the program NEEDS to be accrediated by either CCNE or NLNAC. Regional accrediation comes into play when you want to transfer your nursing credits/degree to another instituion ie grad school around the country this is why regular 4 year instituions like university of florida are regionally accredited. The program has to be approved by the BON (board of nursing) to sit for the NCLEX. Most jobs will only hire students from NLNAC and CCNE accredited schools just like how they have certain prefernce for ADN vs BSN.

In the end it is better to go to a accredited school to avoid the headache and red tape at the end of the day. Accrediation sepeartes those for profit schools that just pop up out of nowhere and the REAL nursing programs that are accredited. No offense to those that are attending non accredited nursing schools though

[Nbr1nurse]

Mayahp22

Just like I previously stated, some nationally accredited schools (like the one I went to) is contracted and/or partnered with Regionally accredited grad schools and theirs is no issue with transferring credits. Going to a regionally accredited school is not the only choice for people pursuing a nursing career. I would greatly advise making sure that your credits do transfer though if you want to go on to grad school because unfortunately, that's just how the system works. We might as well accept it and move on...or so I've been told.