young female docs

[youngfemaledoc]

I was reading some of the comments relating to the nurse physician relationship, and I agree that there is room for improvement in the way that we treat one another in some circumstances. Being a young female physician, I was naturally interested in the numerous comments about the attitude problem of young female physicians who do not like being confused with nurses.

I am inferring that nurses feel that this attitude is condescending, as though the reason we do not like it is because we feel that being a nurse would be beneath us. At least from my standpoint, my dislike of the "young woman = nurse" assumption is not a nurse-physician issue but a gender issue. I do not mind the occasional patient calling me nurse once; what is frustrating as a young female physician is the pervasiveness of this assumption throughout our daily activities. I wear a large, red nametag with the letters MD on it, and every time I walk into a room a introduce myself as a doctor. Without insulting people's intelligence, I do not know what else I can do to make my role in the hospital experience clear. However, at least once a day, someone complains that no physician has been in to see them.

I find it amazing that we live in a society in which gender roles are still so clearly defined.

[Altra, BSN, RN]

Originally posted by meredithT

I have worked in a fortune 500 company for 20 years as a professional (I'm a CPA). For a period of 4 years, I worked in the research division where many were PHd's. But throughout my 20 years, every one of us calls each other by our first names through the entire company. When the v.p. comes to town, everyone addresses him by first name. Nobody is called "Dr." in conversation. Occasionally you see it on very official memo's (never e-mails).

Ten years ago, I worked as a volunteer in the ER and immediately noticed that the nurses called the Dr.s as "Dr. Brown" while the Dr.'s called the nurses by first name only. The disparity in terms of address is not a positive thing, in my opinion. It was quite a surprize too, as I assumed that it would be similar to my work environment. I think that contributes to some of the tension between Dr.'s and nurses. Has it gotten any better or is this still the norm?

Meredith

I'm very interested in hearing more responses on this particular point. I also am coming to nursing from a corporate background, where the culture was very structured and formalized, but it was exceedingly rare to address others by their surnames. Very, very occasionally, I'd feel it was appropriate to introduce, for example, Mr./Ms. X (because I'd never met him/her before and his/her position was very senior to mine) but invariably the response would be, "please call me (first name)." The only person I ever heard consistently referred to as Mr. X was a member of the board of directors who was 75+ years old and from the South, where titles, surnames and "sir" and "ma'am" are still more commonly used as a matter of courtesy.

For now, my nursing instructors are Mr./Ms./Mrs. X, and I feel that is appropriate - I am still a student. I have no problem speaking to someone as Dr. _____ - male or female - their gender has no bearing on this. They have earned that title. But my inclination is, if I'm not invited to use their first name as their professional colleague, then I'm going to want to be addressed as Mrs. _____ by that physician (or anyone else, for that matter, who chooses to not be on a first name basis with me for whatever reason). IMHO, it fosters an inherently unequal relationship to have that disparity in forms of address. So I guess I'm saying that I'm expecting it to be a mix when I'm working as an RN - some physicians will undoubtedly prefer that I call them Dr. X, and some will probably say "call me _____." Am I dreaming?

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but I feel this is an important point.

Leigh

PS - BTW, I have twice been mistaken for a physician by patients' families when I went to the hospital to get my clinical assignment while wearing appropriately professional clothes and my lab coat. But what sticks in my mind more is the time that I was sitting at the nurses station charting while on a clinical assignment and a new physician asked if I was a nurse and could I please help him with something. I replied that I was a student, not a nurse - yet.

[Altra, BSN, RN]

BTW youngfemaledoc, I appreciate hearing your perspective.

Happy New Year everyone,

Leigh

[sbic56, BSN, RN]

Originally posted by lgflamini

youngfemaledoc,

I appreciated your perspective, and I thought it was enlightening. I also think it's pretty cool that you not only took the time to share that perspective, but have enough foresight to try to understand some of the issues in nursing, because those issues can, and probably do affect the job you're trying to do.

I don't even know why the sense of entitlement issue has to come up. You are entitled to be adressed as Dr.- you worked for it, you earned it, and you are a Dr. I don't know if any of the nurses here could say that they wouldn't have the same problem if they were addressed as CNAs or Techs on a continuous basis. (No offense at all meant to the CNAs/Techs here.)

Excellent. I thought your post cleared things up alot. Nobody should be getting offended that people generally want to be recognized for what they have achieved. I can imagine it gets very old to have to repeatedly state just what your function is because some stereotype has mislabeled you.

[mattsmom81]

Originally posted by lgflamini

I don't know if any of the nurses here could say that they wouldn't have the same problem if they were addressed as CNAs or Techs on a continuous basis. (No offense at all meant to the CNAs/Techs here.)

The sad truth is patients are SICK today and dont always have the strength or energy to focus on WHO is coming into the room!

Generally they notice whether their doctor is male or female, because they perceive their doctor as the most important team member. In teaching hospitals, where residents come and go, they may not be able to be as astute.

I've been mistaken as a doctor many times. I am an ICU nurse so what patients and family may be perceiving: a more businesslike, technical, factual, less emotional approach to their dx and care. Still, I notice it happens even MORE frequently to my male coworkers than me!!

A female doc who is unusually friendly and empathetic may be mistaken for a nurse in my experience. This need not be taken as an insult, but it changes the relationship, IMHO. I have also noticed that patients take advantage of our friendly female docs with a good bedside manner...and the docs have had to adopt a more businesslike persona in their own defense...LOL! I've had them ask the female doc to place them on bedpans, clean them up, etc. Patients tend to expect more from females: in time, energy, compassion, whatever. I have had patients and families approach ME for problems when they sense my male coworker cannot be bothered. Some of my male coworkers share this with me: they can 'get away' from patients and family quicker. (not a slam on male nurses, just my sharing of observation)

Again, I attribute this to stereotype and gender bias. My female docs share that their patients seem to 'expect' more from them on a personal level. I am not surprised to hear this, with what I have observed over the years.

Gender bias plays a big role in patient and family expectation, IMHO.

Good discussion on this thread.

[LisaRN2B]

Originally posted by mattsmom81

The sad truth is patients are SICK today and dont always have the strength or energy to focus on WHO is coming into the room!

Generally they notice whether their doctor is male or female, because they perceive their doctor as the most important team member. In teaching hospitals, where residents come and go, they may not be able to be as astute.

I've been mistaken as a doctor many times. I am an ICU nurse so what patients and family may be perceiving: a more businesslike, technical, factual, less emotional approach to their dx and care. Still, I notice it happens even MORE frequently to my male coworkers than me!!

A female doc who is unusually friendly and empathetic may be mistaken for a nurse in my experience. This need not be taken as an insult, but it changes the relationship, IMHO. I have also noticed that patients take advantage of our friendly female docs with a good bedside manner...and the docs have had to adopt a more businesslike persona in their own defense...LOL! I've had them ask the female doc to place them on bedpans, clean them up, etc. Patients tend to expect more from females: in time, energy, compassion, whatever. I have had patients and families approach ME for problems when they sense my male coworker cannot be bothered. Some of my male coworkers share this with me: they can 'get away' from patients and family quicker. (not a slam on male nurses, just my sharing of observation)

Again, I attribute this to stereotype and gender bias. My female docs share that their patients seem to 'expect' more from them on a personal level. I am not surprised to hear this, with what I have observed over the years.

Gender bias plays a big role in patient and family expectation, IMHO.

Good discussion on this thread.

I think this is a good take on this topic. I know none of us like the fact we get stereotyped because of gender, attitude, etc., but I am sure I am guilty of it myself at times.

Thanks to the OP for posting her views on the young female doctor issue.

[DustinRN]

Just about everytime I walk into a patients room they think I'm the Dr. This is especially prevalent in the elderly population. Most people around the area where I live don't encounter too many male nurses in the hospital. Although, that is rapidly changing.

[tcrn]

I too feel frustrated and sometimes confused when families and patient complain that they have not seen a doctor. I know that you are limited on the time spent at the bed side and rely on nurses to keep you informed of changes. I do try to encourage families to keep a list of questions and to "reorient" them to the facts of bedside care. I would suggest you tactfully ask the nurses to remind patients and families of what dr. xyz said this morning or last night and to describe how our partnership in their care is maintained... and how well it works!

Also, consider these people are not USED to how the hospital operates and are really stressed. Being stressed out leads to forgeting that you ms. md was there explaining and asking for questions.

I am really impressed that you are part of this commentary! Not many physicians would do this.... just as not many physicians actually read the nursing notes or listen to nurse patient interaction... bravo for you! I can tell that you really care and take an active role in pt care.

As for being mistaken for a nurse... It could be a lot worse.... what if they thought you were the housekeeper??? haha! A lot of time we as nurses feel as though we are mistaken as "mommy", "waitress" (without tipping!) and "whipping boy".... And are insulted by comments like "Lets wait till the doctor comes to find out what is going on".

My suggestion to you is to keep your chin up, be friendly and available even if you cannot be there. Tell families, patients and nurses (using discretion!!!) to page or call you for important questions, updates or if needed to smooth over the feelings of families who are a little more needy. I have found this is a quick and effective remedy and creates a win-win situation. good luck!