Why, why, why are people so stupid?

mother/babyRN, RN · Jan 5, 2003

I often wonder why some people can get away with this sort of behavior because " thats how they are." and others are dismissed almost on a whim. I personally would think the DON would be mortified that this sort of person is in a nuturing position. Perhaps she is more afraid of a lawsuit for unlawful termination. In either case, it doesn't seem like she is concerned about the well fare of either the staff or the patients. If this CNA were a guy, he would probably be long gone or charged with some sort of abuse thing....

graysonret · Jan 5, 2003

Since everyone is aware of the taping, I don't think it would be illegal. However, there was another issue that was mentioned and that was abusing the patients. I know, here in Virginia, if you even suspect abuse (not even have proof), it must be reported to APS. If not, you can be held as liable as the abuser. That means criminal charges and loss/suspension of license. I would report her immediately. They will investigate but, legally, you are covered. Keeping a journal or documenting abuse without reporting it is cutting your own throat.

duckie · Jan 5, 2003

Today is my day off and I called in to check about a resident I admitted last night. A CNA I trust informed me that the CNA is denying she said it and says the nurse turned her words around when the LN said, "I'd like to know what is being said in that dining room, probably things that shouldn't be." The CNA states she told the LN she could always use a recorder to find out. I have a feeling this is going to get rally messy and nasty. I'm honestly not certain who to believe. I will keep watching the situation to try and evaluate which one I think is not being honest here and then I will do what ever has to be done to protect everyone. I am, however preparing myself for the fact that no one is trusted and a tape recorder could be lurking. If I do find out the LN was the one that caused the problem, I will find it very difficult to trust her in a professional manner. This is the same LN that a few months back told me a story about how cold and sick she was from no heat, I went to my wallet and pulled out $50.00 and gave it to her, to buy an electric blanket so she could sleep warmly, only to be informed by my supervisor that she had done this before and to not let my soft heart be crushed. I have issues with both of them, personally I wish I did not have to work with either one. Why does this job always seem to end up feeling like a TV soap opera? I hate having a soft heart, makes me feel like I have "SUCKER" written on my forehead!

ktwlpn, LPN · Jan 5, 2003

This really s*cks..I have 2 cna's with HUGE chips on their shoulders.I KNOW that they are verbally abusive but I have not actually caught them really saying anything that I could document that would be clear cause for dismissal but I know it is happening.I have heard them be rude and disrespectful and in this day and age most administrators are hesitant to act unless the situation is clear cut out of the fear of lfuture litigation from the dismissed employee(it's a shame that comes before the resident's well-being).....They have intimidated the more alert residents and many of their co-workers and it is scary to think what is happening to the helpless residents behind the closed doors...But I am watching and waiting-and have told the other nurses what I suspect.When I have something concrete to report I will-and I will call the ombudsmen if I need to..Hearsay is not enough evidence either...I do know that in your case an employee is not permitted to record or take photos of any residents....A family with POA or an alert and oriented resident has the right to hide a camera or listening device in their room.....I know that I am partly responsible because initially I was a bit intimidated and kept my mouth shut when I overheard certain things...I will NOT do so anymore....For instance-last week the 2 were passing out afternoon drinks and snacks-as several residents finished they held their empty cups up to the cna's...One said" Your legs aren't broke-get up and throw it away" I really regret not making an issue at the time but this person and I have been in the office twice and I feel that I need a witness to back me up.....Her mother happens to live in our facility-I KNOW she would flip out if she though anyone spoke to HER in that way...Both of these cna's are middle aged black women with histories of substance abuse-they both have poor impulse control and like to stir up controversy on the unit.They spend an inordinate amount of time each day being overly concerned with everyone else's actions....They also bring the worst out in each other..I would like to see them both out of there and I believe that it is only a matter of time...Given enough rope they will hang themselves....I just pray for the strength to face it....

Gromit · Jan 6, 2003

Personally, I'd be looking hard at another facility.

The job can be stressful enough without adding THIS kind of crap to it.

nursedawn67, LPN · Jan 6, 2003

Taping to me is invasion of privacy...and from the sounds of it that cna should have been gone a long time ago!

cwazycwissyRN, RN · Jan 6, 2003

originally posted by duckie
a cna at our facility has flipped her lid and i cannot believe anyone could be so openly stupid!!!!!!! this cna has an anger problem, gets off on showing everyone what a toughie she is. well, as a result, four residents on one unit have stated she is not allowed to even walk in their room. to me, that should have resulted in her termination, due to their reasoning. they have all said she is short tempered, gruff and very disrespectful. a ln overheard her talking to one of them, reported it and still she is there. well, here is the straw that broke my back and i blew a gasket last night. i reported this to my immediate supervisor and it just so happened that the don popped by and she heard it to, plus the ln that had this converstation with her was told by me to "put it in writing.....now!" this cna states she is going to carry a tape recorder in her pocket, mostly to pull the heat off herself and trying to catch other cna's saying things out of line but she is also planning on recording resident converstaions. oh no she won't! i told the don, this is a blatant violation, not only of residents rights but the rights of the other employees and i for one will not tolerate it. i have never said anything to a resident i'm regretful for but that is not the point here, this is illegal and i told the don, if i find out she is carrying one, i will file a suit against her, and i think that she should be canned immediately, just for making the threat. she assured the other ln that no one will even know i have it, it will be so small.. okay, duckie is pizzed!!!! i'm pushing for termination, do you see this differently than i do???? what would your reaction be? i also told "the powers that be that i will ask her in front of the other ln if she has one with her and i will tell her if she does she best sit it on the desk, in plain sight until shifts end, because if i find out she is taping, her butt is mine! am i wrong here? how would you react to this??? one pizzed off duck!

looks like she has taken the heat off of her behaviors already.....the recorder is the focus now

duckie · Jan 6, 2003

Good point!

jschut, BSN, RN · Jan 6, 2003

How totally rediculous.

mario_ragucci · Jan 6, 2003

yeah - duckie - I'd distance myself from this because it seems kinda spooky. I feel for you, and understand how some stuff can bother you. Things can change; start with your additude. Give this person another month to ship up, then go to the mafia and have this CNA given an additude adjustment. Sometimes you have to bring these individuals to a higher level of communication; It's all they can understand :-(

Agnus · Jan 6, 2003

This is reportable both to the state board and to the agency that regulates LTC facilities in your state.

I would focus on the BON because this is an individual CNA and maybe LN who are doing these things. If after investigation the BON deems there is a violation of the NPA they will take disaplinary action against these individuals.

If you report it to the agency that regualtes LTC the LTC may or may not be cited but the individuals may still go free so to speak as they only regualte institutions not individual workers in those institutions.

The problem I see is all that might happen is that they do get fired only to go and do their evil some place else. Nursing is a small world and you could run into them again, too. The BON is the only one I believe who can sanction individuals.

rncountry · Jan 7, 2003

In Michigan if reported to the state board, the attorney general may also investigate, depending on the charges. Valid findings of abuse trigger an investigation by the AG's office.