What is your opinion on CNA's being med certified? - page 5

I just read a post by a new Nurse who admitted to making a medication error, and as I was replying to her post I was wondering about something and I'd like to get opinions from others. In my... Read More

  1. by   happystudent
    I worked for DMR years ago and I passed meds to the residents. All meds were routine except for the occasional antibiotic.
    I do agree, however, that more training needed to be given. I remember staff members forgetting to give medications or giving them at wrong times.
    It was a mess........anyway, these people never got written up or fired. We dont have "licenses" to lose. So it wasn't a "big deal"
    If I knew then what I know now about med admins. I would never have taken the job.
    Its scarey, the people they would hire to give meds....
    At the time, I had a vague idea of the types of meds I was admin. I had not idea why that particualr client was recieving it.
  2. by   mscsrjhm
    Dear Geo,
    I agree with your opinion regarding CMTs in acute care settings. Long term settings have worked out a system for CMTs that is effective. Agreed that persons at home might ineffectively receive meds from caring family.
    What we know is not effective are the MILLIONS of persons being given meds by untrained staff, in the mental retardation/ developmental disabilities area, with no direct supervision by LPNs, RNs, or DONs. Just a weekly/bimonthly visit from RN to check on MARS.
    This is where I personally saw hundreds-and I mean hundreds- of medication errors, frequent reports to state with no actions taken, and some harm to patients due to this system.
    HappyStudent worked it, she/he saw.
    No changes in site for this system.
    Mschrisco
  3. by   mscsrjhm
    Dear HappyStudent,

    Definitely a SHE. Sorry- I saw the picture, but didn't see your age. Thought that the picture might be a daughter, now I see it is you. Very pretty. As a mom with three daughters, I give congrats to your MOM.

    Have a good day,
    Mschrisco
  4. by   Angela Mac
    ALFs use med techs and CNAs for med passes. Sure anyone can read a med sheet and pass pills. But it is the lack of assessment that bothers me. The elderly folks in these ALFs have meds that are controlled by their lab values and dietary intake. The pill passers are not educated on adverse reactions, s/s of toxicity, or changes in their VS. Trained nurses are able to note an abnormal apical pulse. I have been noticing, that more skilled patients are entering the assisted living facilities.
  5. by   Dixiedi
    Quote from Angela Mac
    ALFs use med techs and CNAs for med passes. Sure anyone can read a med sheet and pass pills. But it is the lack of assessment that bothers me. The elderly folks in these ALFs have meds that are controlled by their lab values and dietary intake. The pill passers are not educated on adverse reactions, s/s of toxicity, or changes in their VS. Trained nurses are able to note an abnormal apical pulse. I have been noticing, that more skilled patients are entering the assisted living facilities.
    You make a very good point with the skilled pts in the LTC facilities and that makes med certified CNAs scarey.
    In theory, I would think the nurse would be able to assess each of her pts before the meds are passed and tell the CNA to skip this person or that until things are checked out (yea, that's kind of a sloppy way to say it but there are just so many variables). HOWEVER we all know the perfect world does not exsist and while the nurse should be assessing these pts we all know the LTC facility has filled her time with 20 or 30 other responsibilites.
    On the other hand, even though as nurses we are told errors can never occur and if they do we are 10% liable for them there is a margin of error that most facilities consider WNL. It's been so many years since I worked in an administrative position in LTC that I simply do not remember the specifics but I do remember that a facility can have X number of errors before they are considered below standard (some errors are never considered "OK" withi the standard.) That in and of itself is scarey but the governing forces do realize that we are all human and error will occur but too many errors is incompetent.
    Scarey isn't it.
  6. by   evonlpn
    Quote from CJM
    I really don't think that certified nurse's aids should be doing anything with passing out medication. This is just one more step toward replaceing RN's with unlicensed personal. What 's next ?Giving chemo to cancer patients? This opens up Pandora's box.
    I personally don't feel CNA's should be allowed to pass medications. As an LPN I had an opportunity to work with a CNA that had worked at a facility previously that trained her to pass meds. She acted like she knew more than me and try to tell me how to care for an Hospice --dying patient. I believe that passing out meds leads them to believe they know everything- :angryfire sorry sister, try again. I'm not comfortable with being responsible for someone coming off the streets, take a couple of weeks in Med. Administration and proceed to think they know more than me and I have the full training. Let them pass meds today.... what wil they be allowed to do tomorrow.
  7. by   Dixiedi
    Quote from evonlpn
    I personally don't feel CNA's should be allowed to pass medications. As an LPN I had an opportunity to work with a CNA that had worked at a facility previously that trained her to pass meds. She acted like she knew more than me and try to tell me how to care for an Hospice --dying patient. I believe that passing out meds leads them to believe they know everything- :angryfire sorry sister, try again. I'm not comfortable with being responsible for someone coming off the streets, take a couple of weeks in Med. Administration and proceed to think they know more than me and I have the full training. Let them pass meds today.... what wil they be allowed to do tomorrow.
    LOL, (I agree with you about passing CNAs meds is scarey) but can you imagine that RNs are saying the same thing about LPNs?
    The ANA tries very hard to keep our scope of practice at a place that will prevent hospitals from hiring more LPNs and fewer RNs.
    Sounds like that same thing to me.
    Remember, I agree. You just have to have more than a couple of weeks education. A&P, chemistry and biology, etc are definately needed in order to understand how drugs work and if you don't understand how they work you have no business handing them to a pt.

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