touched inappropriately by patient

[newohiorn]

I suppose this has happened to almost everyone at some time or another, but one of my male patients grabbed my breast tonight--after he did his best to crush my fingers on testing his grip strength.

If another nurse told me this happened to her I would be furious. Oddly, upon having it happen to me I feel some anger but mostly I feel belittled, degraded and made to feel powerless, which I'm sure was the point. This patient had just arrived on our unit from PACU. The report from PACU was that he was being a jerk there and had been a jerk on the unit he was on prior to surgery but they hadn't had him do anything like this. This patient was totally uncooperative on my exam with the exception of the great glee he took in trying to crush my fingers and fling me while checking his upper extremity strength--even his wife told him not to hurt me after watching the spectacle he put on. After I asked him to logroll so I could see his surgical incision on his back he very deliberately reached out to me and grabbed my breast. I yelled at him and told him not to do that and my tech called security. Once security arrived on the floor he suddenly became cooperative and, as his family put it, was "coming around". He and his family were trying to convince us all he was "confused" from surgery.

I know this is not a huge deal but I'm surprised how much it shook me up and made me feel vulnerable--and I'm 38 years old for cryin' out loud. I've only been a nurse a little over a year and this is the first time I've had anything like this happen. Anybody else feel this way if it's happened to you?

[newohiorn, BSN, RN, EMT-P]

Jail RN,

I would imagine it is sexual battery here in Ohio too but I don't think I

would get anywhere with filing charges when he supposedly didn't know his own family, didn't know where he was or his own name, etc. I don't believe any of his charade for one minute but I have no way to prove he was A&O. He was putting on this act for his wife, two men I believe were his sons, two security officers and two other younger females--maybe daughters or daughters-in-law. This behavior was obviously not shocking to the family because their reaction was very weird. The wife told him to stop but that was about it. The sons didn't say a word. One daughter type person was on my side by the things she said when one family member said something about patients being this confused must be funny for us--yeah, hilarious. The daughter type person said something to the effect of, "I doubt it." One son type person did have an apologetic attitude toward me but the other acted like nothing happened. None of them apologized. The patient finally apologized when I went back in 2 hours later to medicate him--his story at that point was that he didn't remember any of it. If my dad or husband did that to a nurse I would apologize to her profusely and I would also handle my dad or spouse in no uncertain terms.

The PACU nurse even had the anesthesiologist come back to see this jerk while in recovery because he had been refusing to answer questions about orientation, etc. Anesthesia said he was fine and basically said they couldn't fix the fact that he was a jerk.

I'm sure I wouldn't get anywhere with filing charges because the only other person who witnessed it was the wife and, while she clearly admitted he did it, she was also very much on the "oh he's so confused after surgery bandwagon." I've see lots of people confused after surgery--clearly the patient has not because his impression of one wasn't very good.

I appreciate everybody's support--it's helps me process it by talking about it. Thanks.

[catlynLPN]

Criminal charges seems to be going a bit overboard unless this guy doesn't learn from his mistake. Having security show up is good. Incident report is good but probably won't be seen by nursing supervisors unless your hospital works different than mine. Make sure nursing managers at all levels are aware so that any nurse having future problems with pt doesn't get ignored and pt isn't allowed to continue this behavior. Changing his behavior is the goal.

I wonder if you would feel the same if some guy walked up to you on the street and grabbed your breasts?

If the police showed up....representing the security in the OP post....

and that guy calmed down from the presence of the police, would you be okay with not filing charges? If he said he'd learned his lesson and wouldn't do it again?

Personally, I would not be okay with it, in or out of the hospital. My body is mine, not for any strange man to grab as he please.

It's not normal for men to grab women's breasts whether they're in the hospital or on the street. If they show any sign of having A&O they should have charges filed against them. And I believe that from the OP post she showed evidence that he was A&O.

[herecomestrouble]

I remember a pt I had a few years ago in a NH,had a reputation,one night he grabbed my breast,I yanked his hand away and told him not to ever touch me again.He just smiled and said"what can you do about it?Your not allowed to hurt me and I'll just say I'm crazy"So I wrote a very detailed report,charted everything,called the DON the next day and when I came back to work that afternoon they were just wheeling him out on a stretcher to a psych hospital.I stopped and smiled and said"that's what I can do about it"AAAAAHHHHH it felt so good

[catlynLPN]

I remember a pt I had a few years ago in a NH,had a reputation,one night he grabbed my breast,I yanked his hand away and told him not to ever touch me again.He just smiled and said"what can you do about it?Your not allowed to hurt me and I'll just say I'm crazy"So I wrote a very detailed report,charted everything,called the DON the next day and when I came back to work that afternoon they were just wheeling him out on a stretcher to a psych hospital.I stopped and smiled and said"that's what I can do about it"AAAAAHHHHH it felt so good

You go girl! Good for you!

[nyapa, RN]

P.S. I know much worse things have happened to many, many people at work and in their personal lives. I'm lucky in that I haven't really been treated like this ever before and it gave me a new perspective on how it makes somebody feel.

Define "much worse"! To whom? This was pretty aggressive and inappropriate behaviour, and like everyone else says, it was criminal, literally. I know you found it difficult to assess his orientation, but what you could have done was documented his behaviour and how it changed in certain situations. The police should be informed if you feel it is necessary. Don't let him get away with it just because he is a patient.

We have aggression and abuse forms, there is a standard format we must follow for each incident, the patient is informed that action has been taken and the doctors and the supervisor of the hospital is aware, and that the hospital police officer will be notified the next time this occurs. A copy of this documentation is then given to the sister in charge of the hospital for that shift. It is like a mini contract. We also have to indicate on this form that we have had some form of debriefing for ourselves.

[Jo Dirt]

Dirty old men will not change no matter how many charrges you press against them, may as well say (in a low voice) some vulgarities of your own toward them and leave it at that because they won't change.

[storm06]

It is a sad state of affairs when this type of behaviour is 'acceptable' or when nurses are encouraged to just deal with it - I know of no other profession that is expected to 'deal' with inappropriate behaviour like this.

I remember being told during my training that being touched was going to happen and that we should accept it and deal with it. Again how many other people start a job and are told 'you may have your boobs grabbed but thats ok because the person is just demented?'

As health professionals we encourage women/men to report abuse on all levels - physical, domestic, sexual and emotional. We should be teaching our students and ourselves that it is ok for nurses to report abuse of any kind. If you feel uncomfortable with the actions of your patients do something about it. If your workplace ignores it or does nothing to rectify the situation then surely they are in violation of occupational safety and health laws. The workplace has a duty of care to provide you with a safe workplace.

It is easy to say 'oh well it was just one pinch on the bum/boobs. It bothers me - but I will let it go. The patient has dementia/is stressed/is out of it.' But is it ok to still be saying that after the 10th pinch? Or the 15th pinch? How long do you put up with that type of behaviour before it starts affecting you emotionally?

I have had one to many inadvertant 'touches' or 'sorry my hand slipped' or 'how bout it love?' to ignore this type of behaviour any longer. And it upsets me to see other nurses putting up with it.

On a lighter note - maybe if we all started wearing black belts with our uniforms patients would get the message and stay clear!

[newohiorn, BSN, RN, EMT-P]

I'm going to file a police report today and then on Monday when I return to work I'm going to file an incident report and talk to my nurse manager. Then I'll decide whether or not to call the prosecutor with my police report and ask for charges to be filed. My husband is a cop and he looked it up for me and it is a misdemeanor charge of sexual imposition. He doubts the prosecutor will do anything with it but I would love for the prosecutor to even make a phone call to this jerk just to let him know that I tried to file charges. I just want it on record that this guy did this because I suspect this behavior is neither a first or a last and if he does something again I want there to be a record to show a pattern of behavior.

Thanks again to all for support.

[whipping girl in 07, RN]

I worked in neurotrauma ICU several years ago and it seemed like we always had one or two relatively young male trauma patients a year try to get away with similar behavior. One guy, a 20 something motorcycle crash was such a perv to all the female staff, young, old, fat, thin, cute or not so cute. No female could walk into his room alone. The first day after he was off the vent, we thought it was just because he had a little frontal head injury, but it didn't take long before we realized he was just dirty and it was intentional. He'd take off his pulse ox probe and lay it across his thigh, just south of his naughty bits and pull his gown up so you could see everything and ask you what you thought of it when you came it to put it back on his finger. I told him it was so small I couldn't see it and got a sticky pulse ox and put it on his toe. Made the day shift nurses so upset with his behavior while they bathed him, that the powers that be made him a night bath. There were no males on day shift, they were all on nights. He had a male nurse every night for the rest of the time he was in our unit and all of them would tag team his bath at the start of their shift.

GRRR, four and a half years and he still turns my stomach...

[JailRN]

File the reports--you might find out this isn't the first time with this jerk. Around here, when there is a murder, serial rapist, or pedophile, there is more than one victim. Then comes the TV reports, "Why wasn't anything done before"?

sigh

I personally take the position, "Do not let my size (5'4"-110#) OR my age (54) fool you, because I will STOMP YOU INTO THE GROUND and mail whatever is left home to your Mamma in a small envelope." (usually whispered into their ear while smiling--especialy if there are witnesses):rotfl:

Then I deny,deny,deny!! :saint::saint::saint::saint:

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

Good luck--let us know how is goes...

[Jo Dirt]

I worked in neurotrauma ICU several years ago and it seemed like we always had one or two relatively young male trauma patients a year try to get away with similar behavior. One guy, a 20 something motorcycle crash was such a perv to all the female staff, young, old, fat, thin, cute or not so cute. No female could walk into his room alone. The first day after he was off the vent, we thought it was just because he had a little frontal head injury, but it didn't take long before we realized he was just dirty and it was intentional. He'd take off his pulse ox probe and lay it across his thigh, just south of his naughty bits and pull his gown up so you could see everything and ask you what you thought of it when you came it to put it back on his finger. I told him it was so small I couldn't see it and got a sticky pulse ox and put it on his toe. Made the day shift nurses so upset with his behavior while they bathed him, that the powers that be made him a night bath. There were no males on day shift, they were all on nights. He had a male nurse every night for the rest of the time he was in our unit and all of them would tag team his bath at the start of their shift.

GRRR, four and a half years and he still turns my stomach...

I guess I'm a dirty old woman at heart, because if he had looked like George Clooney he would have been okay by me.

[nyapa, RN]

I'm going to file a police report today and then on Monday when I return to work I'm going to file an incident report and talk to my nurse manager. Then I'll decide whether or not to call the prosecutor with my police report and ask for charges to be filed. My husband is a cop and he looked it up for me and it is a misdemeanor charge of sexual imposition. He doubts the prosecutor will do anything with it but I would love for the prosecutor to even make a phone call to this jerk just to let him know that I tried to file charges. I just want it on record that this guy did this because I suspect this behavior is neither a first or a last and if he does something again I want there to be a record to show a pattern of behavior.

Thanks again to all for support.

Good girl! But make sure you get some sort of debriefing as well.