Survey: Should nurses from other countries be recruited to aid in the nursing shortag

LadyBugRN · Jul 2, 2004

On this thread, one has only to answer "yes' or "no."
If one answered " yes" then fine. If one answered "no" then that is their choice. But never, ever, blame the foreign nurses for coming to America and working in the hospitals because US nurses can only blame themselves.
The nurses on this thread should explain why they are against recruitment of foreign nurses to ease the shortage. Most of them said that with recruitment of foreign nurses, it brings down wages, it does not improve the working conditions in the hospitals, also language problems would occur between patients and the health team. These reasons cited are not valid enough because it blames the foreign nurses but do not address the problem.
The problem that every American nurses should address is how to change corporate America. Corporate America those in particular handling the big hospitals, etc.
Get your act together. Unite and serve an example by not running away from your job by changing careers because of poor staffing.
Write to your congressmen and senators and show the the American nurses has a voice. But as long these are not happening, then don't blame the foreigners for coming here to work in your hospitals. After all they too want to have their share of the American dream that your forefathers had aspired before.
As for the language problem, starting 1997, the US government has required every foreign nurses to take the TOEFL ( Test on English as a foreign language) and TSE ( Test on Spoken English).
These English exams are requirements for the visa screen certiticate aside from the CGFNS/NCLEX. The visa screen certificate is a federal requirement before an immigrant visa is issued. No foreign nurse can immigrate to the USA without it.
Even working visas for nurses, H1C or H1b, require the visa screen certificate.
In fact, the US government has made it harder for foreign nurses to come and work in your country.
By the way, the type of English that is given on these exams is college English, the kind of English we hear from CNN or Foxnews. Not the type of English that is spoken in the streets of New York or in San Francisco.
As for contracts, the minimum wage given on foreign nurses are based on your labor laws on current legal wage. So. this means foreign nurses are not bringing down wages because they are paid the same as that of American nurses.
Also, somebody mentioned the problem of spending money on the recruitment of foreign nurses instead on the education of Americans who want to take up nursing. Well, form a business point of view, will I invest in someone who has yet to take up nursing and with the high attrition rate in schools and the NCLEX? I don't think so. I would invest in somebody who has finished nursing school, who has a license and is willing to spend the rest of his/her life in nursing. That is business to me. Don't get me wrong on here but most of you would agree.
So, UNITE AND GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER! In the meantime, foreign nurses are arriving in your country everyday. :)

I am a Registered Nurse and not recruited from the Philippines. With a BS in Medical Technology, returned to school to be a Nurse. There was already a shortage fifteen years ago and the hospital where I was working paid for my nursing education. I was born and raised in the Philippines. We were taught English since Kindergarten up to college. In college, we had to take a course in Voice and diction. It was a mandatory course for every college student. When I came to America, because of my accent, the first year was difficult. As time went by I began to understand them and they began to understand me. I still have my accent (that will never go away). I consider myself a good communicator and a good nurse. I know because my patients tell me so. The family of my patients are happy when they know I am assigned to take care of their Dad or Mom. I have been a nurse now for 18 months. I noticed that Filipino nurses are respected for their diligence, professionalism, and caring attitude. I think that our schools of nurses have prepared us to be a real professionals. I think that hospitals should continue to recruit nurses from foreign countries like the Phillipines = worth the time and money. They usually pick the good ones.

LadyBugRN · Jul 2, 2004

On this thread, one has only to answer "yes' or "no."
If one answered " yes" then fine. If one answered "no" then that is their choice. But never, ever, blame the foreign nurses for coming to America and working in the hospitals because US nurses can only blame themselves.
The nurses on this thread should explain why they are against recruitment of foreign nurses to ease the shortage. Most of them said that with recruitment of foreign nurses, it brings down wages, it does not improve the working conditions in the hospitals, also language problems would occur between patients and the health team. These reasons cited are not valid enough because it blames the foreign nurses but do not address the problem.
The problem that every American nurses should address is how to change corporate America. Corporate America those in particular handling the big hospitals, etc.
Get your act together. Unite and serve an example by not running away from your job by changing careers because of poor staffing.
Write to your congressmen and senators and show the the American nurses has a voice. But as long these are not happening, then don't blame the foreigners for coming here to work in your hospitals. After all they too want to have their share of the American dream that your forefathers had aspired before.
As for the language problem, starting 1997, the US government has required every foreign nurses to take the TOEFL ( Test on English as a foreign language) and TSE ( Test on Spoken English).
These English exams are requirements for the visa screen certiticate aside from the CGFNS/NCLEX. The visa screen certificate is a federal requirement before an immigrant visa is issued. No foreign nurse can immigrate to the USA without it.
Even working visas for nurses, H1C or H1b, require the visa screen certificate.
In fact, the US government has made it harder for foreign nurses to come and work in your country.
By the way, the type of English that is given on these exams is college English, the kind of English we hear from CNN or Foxnews. Not the type of English that is spoken in the streets of New York or in San Francisco.
As for contracts, the minimum wage given on foreign nurses are based on your labor laws on current legal wage. So. this means foreign nurses are not bringing down wages because they are paid the same as that of American nurses.
Also, somebody mentioned the problem of spending money on the recruitment of foreign nurses instead on the education of Americans who want to take up nursing. Well, form a business point of view, will I invest in someone who has yet to take up nursing and with the high attrition rate in schools and the NCLEX? I don't think so. I would invest in somebody who has finished nursing school, who has a license and is willing to spend the rest of his/her life in nursing. That is business to me. Don't get me wrong on here but most of you would agree.
So, UNITE AND GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER! In the meantime, foreign nurses are arriving in your country everyday. :)

I am a Registered Nurse and not recruited from the Philippines. With a BS in Medical Technology, returned to school to be a Nurse. There was already a shortage fifteen years ago and the hospital where I was working paid for my nursing education. I was born and raised in the Philippines. We were taught English since Kindergarten up to college. In college, we had to take a course in Voice and diction. It was a mandatory course for every college student. When I came to America, because of my accent, the first year was difficult. As time went by I began to understand them and they began to understand me. I still have my accent (that will never go away). I consider myself a good communicator and a good nurse. I know because my patients tell me so. The family of my patients are happy when they know I am assigned to take care of their Dad or Mom. I have been a nurse now for 18 months. I noticed that Filipino nurses are respected for their diligence, professionalism, and caring attitude. I think that our schools of nurses have prepared us to be a real professionals. I think that hospitals should continue to recruit nurses from foreign countries like the Phillipines = worth the time and money. They usually pick the good ones.

Gromit · Jul 2, 2004

Since language is your outmost concern then I tell you something about us.
Speaking for the Filipino nurses, we spent four years in nursing schools/clinicals. Our language of instruction is English. The nursing and medical books we used are written by American authors. Therefore, we Filipino nurses including other nationalities whose language of instruction is English are familiar with the type of medical English used in an American hospital environment.
By the way, the Americans stayed in our country for fifty years and English is our second national language. Nobody has a monopoly on the English language. CNN and Foxnews are breakfast to us. :)

Rep, if you'll pardon me, but in my opinion, Filipino nurses are a cut above. I've worked with quite a few (if you live in central Florida, a LOT of the nurses are Filipinos) and all of them are very good, and their language skills are just as you say. But not all foreign nurses learned with medical books written by American authors, or are familiar with medical English used in an American hospital environment, etc. Listening to some of my friends who are nurses from your islands, your nursing curriculum is more difficult than ours is (especially if you compare it to our community college ones (which is where I went. BSN eventually, but not yet), and it shows in their skills. Very good, very proficient. But other foreign places do not use the same kinds of tools. Learning in an english-type environment, with english-based books and settings would prepare you in a most unique way to work in the US. But taking the TOEFL and TSE does not test for medical, and is a poor standard to guage ones' ability to communicate in the medical setting. If they didn't have the advantage of learning their medical training using american books like you did, then they may pass those two tests, but which nurse do YOU think would have a better shot at excelling in the medical environment?

Gromit · Jul 2, 2004

Since language is your outmost concern then I tell you something about us.
Speaking for the Filipino nurses, we spent four years in nursing schools/clinicals. Our language of instruction is English. The nursing and medical books we used are written by American authors. Therefore, we Filipino nurses including other nationalities whose language of instruction is English are familiar with the type of medical English used in an American hospital environment.
By the way, the Americans stayed in our country for fifty years and English is our second national language. Nobody has a monopoly on the English language. CNN and Foxnews are breakfast to us. :)

Rep, if you'll pardon me, but in my opinion, Filipino nurses are a cut above. I've worked with quite a few (if you live in central Florida, a LOT of the nurses are Filipinos) and all of them are very good, and their language skills are just as you say. But not all foreign nurses learned with medical books written by American authors, or are familiar with medical English used in an American hospital environment, etc. Listening to some of my friends who are nurses from your islands, your nursing curriculum is more difficult than ours is (especially if you compare it to our community college ones (which is where I went. BSN eventually, but not yet), and it shows in their skills. Very good, very proficient. But other foreign places do not use the same kinds of tools. Learning in an english-type environment, with english-based books and settings would prepare you in a most unique way to work in the US. But taking the TOEFL and TSE does not test for medical, and is a poor standard to guage ones' ability to communicate in the medical setting. If they didn't have the advantage of learning their medical training using american books like you did, then they may pass those two tests, but which nurse do YOU think would have a better shot at excelling in the medical environment?

Rep · Jul 2, 2004

Rep, I'm sorry, but I have to tell you that passing an English exam DOES NOT necessarily mean you can communicate in English well enough to practise nursing. I have never seen this as a huge problem with the Phillipino nurses I work with, because as you pointed out they were trained in English, but I have seen it with Asian nurses from HK, mainland China and India. It isn't just about medical terminology either. Some of them had such strong accents that patients and family members couldn't understand them.

You are right! Passing the English exams do not necessarily means one can communicate in English well enough to practice nursing. But this passing shows that the nurse has the needed language skills to easily assimilate in the working environment.

Frankly speaking, I am against someone who would led a foreign nurse to work in the unit with language skills problem because it will compromise patient care.

That is why the US government has require these English exams for every foreign nurses coming to the US. :)

Rep · Jul 2, 2004

Rep, I'm sorry, but I have to tell you that passing an English exam DOES NOT necessarily mean you can communicate in English well enough to practise nursing. I have never seen this as a huge problem with the Phillipino nurses I work with, because as you pointed out they were trained in English, but I have seen it with Asian nurses from HK, mainland China and India. It isn't just about medical terminology either. Some of them had such strong accents that patients and family members couldn't understand them.

You are right! Passing the English exams do not necessarily means one can communicate in English well enough to practice nursing. But this passing shows that the nurse has the needed language skills to easily assimilate in the working environment.

Frankly speaking, I am against someone who would led a foreign nurse to work in the unit with language skills problem because it will compromise patient care.

That is why the US government has require these English exams for every foreign nurses coming to the US. :)

Rep · Jul 2, 2004

If they didn't have the advantage of learning their medical training using american books like you did, then they may pass those two tests, but which nurse do YOU think would have a better shot at excelling in the medical environment?

Definitely, I would go for that foreign nurse whose nursing education were taught in English. On that I agree with you.

You know , we may agree or disagree with our opinions but we can learn a lot from each other. :)

Rep · Jul 2, 2004

If they didn't have the advantage of learning their medical training using american books like you did, then they may pass those two tests, but which nurse do YOU think would have a better shot at excelling in the medical environment?

Definitely, I would go for that foreign nurse whose nursing education were taught in English. On that I agree with you.

You know , we may agree or disagree with our opinions but we can learn a lot from each other. :)

fergus51 · Jul 2, 2004

You are right! Passing the English exams do not necessarily means one can communicate in English well enough to practice nursing. But this passing shows that the nurse has the needed language skills to easily assimilate in the working environment.
Frankly speaking, I am against someone who would led a foreign nurse to work in the unit with language skills problem because it will compromise patient care.
That is why the US government has require these English exams for every foreign nurses coming to the US. :)

I agree with you here. Hospitals should not hire staff that can't function in English. It is a problem with the system. That said, a nurse has the responsibility to ensure she can give safe care. If she can't because of a language problem, it IS her responsibility to do something about it and not try to pawn it off as just a problem with the system.

fergus51 · Jul 2, 2004

You are right! Passing the English exams do not necessarily means one can communicate in English well enough to practice nursing. But this passing shows that the nurse has the needed language skills to easily assimilate in the working environment.
Frankly speaking, I am against someone who would led a foreign nurse to work in the unit with language skills problem because it will compromise patient care.
That is why the US government has require these English exams for every foreign nurses coming to the US. :)

I agree with you here. Hospitals should not hire staff that can't function in English. It is a problem with the system. That said, a nurse has the responsibility to ensure she can give safe care. If she can't because of a language problem, it IS her responsibility to do something about it and not try to pawn it off as just a problem with the system.

jesl · Jul 12, 2004

I feel that we should first look at our situation here in the US as to why it is there is a shortage to start with. I have been a travel nurse for 4 yrs now and have no problem getting a contract with good money so why can't administration sit down with the nursing staff and give them respect, a good wage and a decent schedule :coollook: I don;t think we need to support other countries with the United States money anymore then we already do!

This month's survey Question:
Should nurses from other countries be recruited to aid in the nursing shortage?
Please take a minute to take answer our survey and please feel free to reply to this topic to post any comments that you may have on the topic.

leslie :-D · Jul 12, 2004

i did not read this entire thread but based on the question alone, i would have to state that we need to address and resolve the issues of the nursing shortage from within rather than recruit to outsiders first.