Religion's Place in Nursing - page 8

I often read Billy Graham's column and thought today's was particulary pertinent to our profession. I'm just curious as to your own personal thoughts and feelings on the matter. (Please, no... Read More

  1. by   caroladybelle
    I also suggest that you approach the Eastern Orthodox Churches in Europe/Mediterrannean/Middle East ....one of the oldest and historically relevant churches in the world, how inaccurate, heretical that the Gnostic Gospels are. They consider them quite important and relevant, despite the fact that the men that created the Bible omitted them.

    As they substantially outdate Protestantism and many of their members are able to decipher scripts better, as they have studied biblical language/customs/regions more than the average protestant has, I tend to lend them more credence.
  2. by   Jaaaman
    1. Jesus and His apostles did not accept these books as part of
    the Scripture
    a. There are no NT references to any of the Apocrypha as being
    authoritative
    b. The NT writers quote not one part of the Apocrypha
    2. Judaism never accepted these books as part of the Scriptures
    a. Ancient Jewish leaders specifically rejected the Apocrypha
    (Josephus, Philo)
    b. While included in the Septuagint (Gr. OT), they were never
    accepted as canonical
    c. The New American Bible, the new Catholic translation, in a
    footnote to the Story of Susanna and Bel and the Dragon
    frankly admits: "They are excluded from the Jewish canon of
    Scripture..."
    3. While a few early church leaders appear to take some material
    from them, most were opposed to the inclusion of the Apocrypha
    into the canon of Scripture (Athanasius, Cyril of Jerusalem,
    Jerome, Origen)
    4. The Apocrypha itself recognizes our OT canon as a distinct
    twenty-four books, which corresponds to the Hebrew Bible as it
    is known today
    a. In 2 Esd 14:44-48, 70 books are distinguished from 94,
    leaving 24, or the exact number of the Hebrew canon, which
    became our 39 OT books
    b. Not only does the Apocrypha not claim inspiration for
    itself, it actually disclaims it when 1 Mac 9:27 describes
    an existing cessation of prophecy
    5. They include unbiblical teaching, such as praying for the dead
    (2 Mac 12:46)
    6. They contain demonstrable errors; for example:
    a. Tobit was supposedly alive when Jeroboam led his revolt (931
    B.C.)
    b. He was still living at the time of the Assyrian captivity
    (722 B.C.)
    c. Yet the Book of Tobit says he lived only 158 years - Tob
    1:3-5; 14:11
    7. The first official adoption of the Apocrypha by the Roman
    Catholic Church came at the Council of Trent in 1546, over
    1,500 years after the books were written
    8. When the Apocrypha appeared in Protestant Bibles:
    a. It was normally placed in a separate section since it was
    not considered of equal authority
    b. Luther included the Apocrypha in his German Bible, but he
    introduced them with the comment, "These are books that are
    not to be considered the same as Holy Scripture, and yet are
    useful and good to read."
    9. No Greek manuscript contains the exact collection of the books
    of the Apocrypha as accepted by the Council of Trent
    10. While the Syrian church accepted the Apocrypha in the fourth
    century, the translation of the Bible into Syrian in the second
    century A.D. did not include it
    11. The Qumran community had hundreds of books in its library
    beyond the Scriptures
    a. While the library had some of the Apocrypha, it did not have
    commentaries on the Apocrypha it did with OT books
    b. The OT books had special script and parchment, unlike the
    Apocrypha
    c. Qumran clearly considered the Apocrypha as different from
    Scripture

    CONCLUSION

    1. While the Apocrypha of the OT may be of historical value and in some
    ways supplement God's truth, they are not canonical

    2. Those who accept the authority of Jesus and His apostles will be
    content with those books found in the Hebrew OT

    http://www.ccel.org/contrib/exec_out...e/bible_02.htm[/INDENT]
    Last edit by Jaaaman on Apr 14, '04 : Reason: This is a "religion and nursing thread" :)
  3. by   caroladybelle
    3. In one sense, the issue might be regarded as irrelevant...
    a. The Apocrypha relates to the Old Testament
    b. Christians are under the New Covenant of Christ, not the Law of
    Moses - Ro 7:6; Ga 5:4
    c. Therefore we are to continue steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine
    - cf. Ac 2:42 [[/QUOTE]

    Uhhhh,

    The title of the thread is "Religion and Nursing", it is not "Christianity and Nursing". Therefore religion is relevant not just Christianity.

    And the Gnostic gospels, Infancy testament of Thomas and James are quite clearly New Testament, not Old. And many of the writings are clearly correlated with those of the New Testament. And as they deal clearly with Jesus' life and with Mary. They are clearly relevant.

    And the Pseudepigraphia is still not addressed. And as many of their events are clearly referenced in the Bible (the fall of angels, the creation), they can hardly be considered irrelevant.
  4. by   Jaaaman
    c. Therefore we are to continue steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine
    - cf. Ac 2:42
    Uhhhh,

    The title of the thread is "Religion and Nursing", it is not "Christianity and Nursing". Therefore religion is relevant not just Christianity.
    I'm sorry about that, I was in such a haste to respond to your post that I missed that statement. I have edited that portion out of my post.
  5. by   teeituptom
    Everyone is here is looking for Logic

    Its not about logic

    Its about faith

    It doesnt even matter which faith

    christian, catholic, jewish, buddhism , whatever

    Its about faith

    its about love

    its about being good

    Go I believe in immaculate conception

    YES

    Do I believe he raised from the dead

    Yes

    and everything else also

    it is all faith and love

    why complicate it
  6. by   walterrn
    Wow. A very good discussion folks. Guess I'll toss my two cents in as well. I believe that God, in His infinate wisdom, figured that us humans could not and would not agree on anything. What color is the grass? Blue-green, lime-green, forest-green, etc. So, in His infinate wisdom He made many manisfestations of Himself. Jesus, Muhammid, Bhudda..................live a life with love and tolerance of others. Do good works. Believe in any manisfestation that you want, He's all the same Guy.

    If I lead a good life, have love and tolerance for others, why believe in anything..................why indeed if the conclusion of His plan is for us to do just that.

    I consider myself a Christian and believe in Jesus Christ. But I also believe that God wants all to love him and each other, so, I guess I'm not a Christian. I figure God knows my reasoning, and unless you're God, you have no say in my belief.

    __________________________________________________ __________

    Religion is man made, spirituality is God given.

    Religion is for those people afraid to go to hell, spirituality is for those of us who've been there.
  7. by   duckboy20
    It's quite obvious to me by now that psychomachia has put quite a bit of thought into this and doesn't need much more thought provoking here. LOL
    Tweetie- Yeah I know what you mean. I guess when I was writing that I was thinking that statement I made to be directed to everyone on here, to think a little more, not just psychomachia. He is who I was talking to so I ended up directing it in statement towards him. I just think that no matter what religion you are or no religion at all it is quite important to know why you are that way. Is it cause you were raised that way, mom and dad says it is so it has to be? If you never sort of question the way you are then to me you are in it blindly. If you don't question you don't make yourself find the answers. I too am enjoying the conversation on here!
  8. by   Tweety
    Quote from teeituptom
    why complicate it
    Because it's not the truth that we all believe in. To you it's simple, the Bible says it, you believe it, end of discussion. Besides, it's more fun this way.
  9. by   donmurray
    Re Einstein. It appears our Albert had rather more to say on the subect than some would prefer.....

    *****
    "I cannot then believe in this concept of an anthropomorphic God who has the powers of interfering with these natural laws. ... In essence, my religion consists of a humble admiration for this illimitable superior spirit that reveals itself in the slight details that we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds."
    -Albert Einstein

    *****
    "I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the type of which we are conscious in ourselves. An individual who should survive his physical death is also beyond my comprehension, nor do I wish it otherwise; such notions are for the fears or absurd egoism of feeble souls."
    -Albert Einstein

    *****
    "To be sure, the doctrine of a personal God interfering with natural events could never be refuted, in the real sense, by science, for this doctrine can always take refuge in those domains in which scientific knowledge has not yet been able to set foot."
    -Albert Einstein

    *****
    "My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment."
    -Albert Einstein

    *****
    "It is quite possible that we can do greater things than Jesus, for what is written in the Bible about him is poetically embellished."
    -Albert Einstein

    *****
    "Why do you write to me "God should punish the English"? I have no close connection to either one or the other. I see only with deep regret that God punishes so many of His children for their numerous stupidities, for which only He Himself can be held responsible; in my opinion, only His nonexistence could excuse Him."
    -Albert Einstein

    *****
    "The foundation of morality should not be made dependent on myth nor tied to any authority lest doubt about the myth or about the legitimacy of the authority imperil the foundation of sound judgment and action."
    -Albert Einstein

    *****
    "I do not believe that a man should be restrained in his daily actions by being afraid of punishment after death or that he should do things only because in this way he will be rewarded after he dies."
    -Albert Einstein

    *****
    "In their struggle for the ethical good, teachers of religion must have the stature to give up the doctrine of a personal God, that is, give up that source of fear and hope which in the past placed such vast power in the hands of priests."
    -Albert Einstein

    *****
    "There is nothing divine about morality, it is a purely human affair."
    -Albert Einstein

    *****
    "True religion is real living; living with all one's soul, with all one's goodness and righteousness."
    -Albert Einstein

    *****
    "My religiosity consists in a humble admiration of the infinitely superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our weak and transitory understanding, can comprehend of reality."
    -Albert Einstein

    *****
    "It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly."
    -Albert Einstein

    *****
    "The pursuit of science leads to a religious feeling of a special sort, which is indeed quite different from the religiosity of someone more naive."
    -Albert Einstein

    *****
    "I came-- though the child of entirely irreligious (Jewish) parents -- to a deep religiousness, which, however, reached an abrupt end at the age of twelve."
    -Albert Einstein
  10. by   clickhere
    This tread is irrelevant because RELIGION is irrelevant! There is NO God, and Christianity is just a myth. Why do we spend our time arguing about Greek mythology? The stories are more interesting and believable!
  11. by   duckboy20
    This tread is irrelevant because RELIGION is irrelevant! There is NO God, and Christianity is just a myth
    Well that might be what you believe but there happen to be others who believe differently. Therefore this thread is relevant
  12. by   clickhere
    Well, then lets discuss how Hercules, son of Zeus (God), will save humanity will his magnificient strength and deeds. I doubt that Jesus could even bench press his own weight. When they painted pictures of a blond and white Jesus
    (yea right), they should put some big muscles on him!
  13. by   Louisepug
    Quote from teeituptom
    Everyone is here is looking for Logic

    Its not about logic

    Its about faith

    It doesnt even matter which faith

    christian, catholic, jewish, buddhism , whatever

    Its about faith

    its about love

    its about being good

    Go I believe in immaculate conception

    YES

    Do I believe he raised from the dead

    Yes

    and everything else also

    it is all faith and love

    why complicate it

    TeeitupTom, I like where you're coming from! Totally agree!

close