Nursing Education - - page 3

I have been told that nursing for the future will be optimum education level - PhD. Is this necessary? Is this the direction of our furture as nurses?... Read More

  1. by   YukonSean
    Although, strictly speaking, we do not have ADNs in Canada, there are also two streams of entry to nurse practice here. One may attend three years at a community college (graduates are reffered to as "diploma nurses" in the vernacular), or she can do a four-year university degree. So, I suppose our diploma nurses are analagous to your ADNs. As in the USA, a grad must pass the national CNAT exam before being credentialled as an RN in this country.

    The Canadian diploma vs degree debate has been raging for quite some time! The lastest is that many jurisdictions have set out a minimal level of BScN education as the qualification for CNAT candidacy; this is to take effect in (I think) around 2003 or 2005. In the meantime, colleges and universities are trying to develop partnerships for nurse education, say, e.g., doing the first two years at college, and finishing the remaining two at a partnered university. You should check into your own state to see whether this is happeneing there. In Canada, it is the populous provinces like Ontario and British Columbia that are moving forward soonest with this initiative.

    I am inclined to agree with Teeny Suzy about the graduate studies. I am a originally a diploma nurse. I later did a post-diploma baccaluareate (increasingly popular through novel delivery methods, like the internet!), and I am now halfway through my MSc graduate degree. After doing task oriented (diploma), and then read-and-regurgitate (bachelor) courses, it is so welcome for me to study in a world of critical thinking and intelligent debate!

    We all know the stats; the median age for nurses is somewhere in the mid 40s, meaning there will be mass retirement in the next 10 or 15 years... Therefore the worsening RN shoratge will impact not only direct service providers, but also educators and academics.

    The bedside nurse will not require a PhD in our lifetime, but she will probably need a BScN. The push for graduate and doctoral preaparation is in keeping with the advancement of nursing as a profession. We are not opposed to medicine, but we are different from medicine. Nurse education and nursing skills must be recognised as being a distinct body of knowledge, not as a subset of what doctors do. This is why nurses must pursue those same academic titles that psycholgists and others have been after for decades.

    When I was a student nurse, there were no doctaral programmes even availanble for us in Canada! Now, many univesities offer Master or PhD nursing degrees here; the change has been rapid, especially in the past decade. Even in the European countries, where RN training was traditionally done like an "apprenticeship" through hospitals, there are baccalaureate degrees being implemented, as our Dutch colleague pointed out.
  2. by   Curlytop
    Originally posted by woo 2
    no debate here, an rn is an rn, i don,t care if you are diploma, AD or BSN, everybody starts out the same. we all know the real education begins after you graduate. if you want to climb the clinical ladder you need a degree, but in a time of nursing shortage how many middle management jobs do you think there will be, bedside nursing is total job security. i also think that by promoting the fact that if you have a degree you have sooo many more opportunities we are helping to continue the nursing shortage. bedside nursing does not need to be just a stepping stone to something better, bedside nursing is pretty great all by its self.
    I totally agree! I attended what was at the time (10 yrs ago) a 3-year diploma program which has since become a BSN program.
    I attended with the expectation of retiring as a bedside ICU nurse. I made $60,000 last year as a 'lowly' bedside nurse and have no intentions of going back to school for one short year to obtain a BSN. Why??? #1-- no increase in pay, #2-- see no benefit for me at bedside. I am however studying for the CCRN- a definite benefit. I have no beef with the nurses who graduate from 4-year schools because education is so important. However, I see no difference in co-workers with and without a BSN. I am also so dam* tired of people who go into nursing "just " to become a Nurse Anethetist (CRNA) and treat bedside nursing as "below them" or an "inconvenience"
  3. by   Q.
    Curlytop-

    The hostility towards people who become nurses to ultimately be a CRNA confuses me. We need those nurses as well. Besides, bite your tongue as the CRNAs future is in jeapardy of being replaced by Anesthesia Assistants: cheaper, unstudied and in the pocket of the AMA.

    The nursing shortage hurts ALL nurses: not just those at the bedside.


    I went into nursing "just" to be a Labor and Delivery nurse and saw Medical-Surgical nursing as an inconvience. Does that mean I am also bad?
  4. by   Mijourney
    Hi. As I see it, nursing education needs to be designed so that students get time to properly understand and apply what they learned in theory and practice in school BEFORE they graduate and pass boards to go on their own. When it really comes down to it, the title is just a word or acronym, it's the type and quality of education needed to deal with a changing mix of patients and families along with all the other things that impact nursing practice in this world.

    While we don't want to and shouldn't claim to be doctors, we want to have our education and practices as finely tuned as theirs should be.
  5. by   live4today
    If I go back to college for a PhD, it won't be in nursing. I'd become a clinical psychologist (which I'm probably going to do anyway).:chuckle


    "Sometimes the road less traveled is less traveled for a reason." -- JERRY SEINFELD
  6. by   NewbornNurseRN
    Well I am a Diploma Nurse and would not trade that for anything.............Experience was the key to my career when I graduated.............
  7. by   P_RN
    ROFL Here we are on the roller coaster again!
    Up and Down, Round and Round.


    I am a NURSE!!!

    That's all I wanted to say!!


    P
  8. by   GreytNurse
    I too, think that 'nurses are nurses'......Sorry to all you "RN's" here, Greytnurse here is "just a LPN/IVC", but I don't think my nursing skills are any less than ANY Rn I've ever worked with. In fact, 90% of the Rn's I've worked with were rather 'scary ' with their skills.......most had never started an IV, inserted a cath, changed out a G-tube, checked for impaction, etc..........The one comment made????? "They didn't teach that to us in school"
    One of my close friends is ready to grad w/ADN. She's been an LPN for 20 years and she told me that what she has been taught, is what she has already learned as a LPN.
    I'm a firm believer that most of what you learn is AFTER you finish school (LPN or RN). "What I really learned about nursing is what I learned on the floor" . I'm not putting anyone down who has their degrees. I have most of my credits, but since the college I went to in Oklahoma doesn't transfer credits, I must retake all of them........I just don't think I want to. Like some of the others stated, it won't make me a better nurse. I love what I do and can't picture myself doing anything different...I've tried. This is what God made me for.....to care for others. Besides, the pay difference doesn't justify the cost of school.
  9. by   Q.
    Originally posted by GreytNurse
    Besides, the pay difference doesn't justify the cost of school.
    And that is one of the biggest problems with nursing.
  10. by   thisnurse
    I think that entry level should be PhD. That way we could get all that learnin out of the way right off and we wouldnt have to think about it again. And we would all be Dr. Nurse.
  11. by   live4today
    We would all be Dr. Nurse making Maid Nurse pay, too. Men will always keep the upper hand over that pot of gold. If we were paid like "Doctor Nurses", Doctors would be paid an even greater amount, and we would STILL have something to gripe about.
  12. by   jmcclellanprofrn
    There is no need for debate or war. Each nurse has the ability to do whatever she/he chooses. PhD at the bedside? Not luckly. We all know a little something about cost containment. If the bedside nurse is competent and caring, the patient does not care about Diploma, ADN, or BSN. I believe it is each nurse's responsibility to determine how she/he wants to serve the community and do so. A BSN does open many more doors for nurses, but many are content "in the box". I take this time to encourage each and everyone of you to go above and beyond what you think you can do, for yourself, your patients, your community and most of all, so you do not have to answer to doctors. I too wanted to be a doctor, until I found nursing. Why treat simply the disease when you can treat the whole person? Nurses are brighter than doctors, we all know this, don't we!
  13. by   live4today
    AMEN Nurse McClellan! Well said, indeed!

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