No Nursing Shortage At The Present Time - page 34

I am assured that some of you are reading this and saying to yourselves, "Duh! This topic is old hat. We already know there's a glut of nurses in many parts of the country, so why are you writing about this?" Here is my reason... Read More

  1. 1
    Quote from windsurfer8
    HM..are you saying I put my career above family? I am confused by what you are saying? Because I did not do my life the exact same as you then I am putting work above family? My point was if you make the choice to get married and have kids then that may limit job options in nursing due to the fact that you may have to work at only one specific hospital or clinic. I am not saying that one is "better" than another. I am saying when you are more flexible (married or not) then you may be more likely to have more job options. Nothing more nothing less. Just because people choose to live different than you does not mean they have no life.
    And for this very reason, I would discourage people with small children/ marriage from entering nursing. Nursing isn't very family friendly job, and the more flexible one is, the better the chances that person will have in finding a job once they graduate and this is an employer's market. So I agree with you 100%.
    Fiona59 likes this.

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  2. 2
    Quote from HM-8404
    I didn't say anything about what you did except it was great you could up and move that far away to take a job. As I said, that option is not available to many people.

    When you said if you can't move away to take a job due to your decision to have a spouse or kids you sound like you think they should have thought that decision through even more.

    Choose to live differently than me? Tell me o wise one, how do I live?
    I cannot speak for windsurfer, but I do think people need to start thinking more carefully before they start making career changes. People should put more thought before investing thousands of dollars (and burying themselves into deeper debt) for an education that may not garner a job offering. As a single and childless person, the consequences of not finding a job post-grad are nowhere near as dire as the single mom with four mouths to feed. It is just a simple fact of life.
    DizzyLizzyNurse and Fiona59 like this.
  3. 3
    Quote from AOx1
    I am a greedy academic. In fact, I am so eager to line my pockets that I completed my doctorate and now earn about the same as when I worked the floor full time. I enjoy my pursuit of money so much that I make it a point to work numerous unpaid hours to mentor nursing students, find them resources, remediate poor performance, and help them excel. Oh, but the rewards are so great! Each and every time I log on here, academics are blamed for: perpetuating the nursing shortage, lying, being evil/out to get students, being lazy, egomaniacal, out of touch, etc.

    All of our graduating class had a job. There are still jobs in rural areas where we live, and some rural facilities still have tuition reimbursement. We are honest with our students and encourage them to be educated about the current state of nursing, cautioning them that in other areas of the country, they might not find work. I don't know the solution, but it isn't to attack or blame an entire segment of the nursing profession. Without the lying, pocket-lining academics, not of us would even have a license.

    The economy is terrible. Many fields aren't hiring. Should we just close all colleges? As consumers of education, first start by doing your own research. Are jobs available in your area? Are you willing to work any shift, holidays, weekends, or any area if jobs are scarce? Let's just shut down all degree paths with a surplus of graduates! Sorry to those of you planning to become English, theater, communications, arts, education, or psychology majors, but you are no longer allowed to get degrees. No paternalism, there!
    I meant no personal offense but the proliferation of so many nursing schools.....many for profit charging phenomenal fees for charging $100,000 for a BSN or an accelerated program (in CA)..... is robbery. There is a 43% unemployment rate in CA for nurses No Jobs for 43% of Newly Licensed Nurses Responding to Statewide Survey, According to Report by California Institute for Nursing.

    Yet, I continue to hear the drone of a "Nursing Shortage" and the need for more schools to educate more nurses when many nurses cannot find work or find a facility that will hire a new grad. I had no intention to impune your reputation and integrity nor the integrity of your particular institution. I agree that almost 50% of all college graduates cannot find work. The economy is bad.

    My opinions are generalities and not a personal attack. I still believe that there is greed driving some of these new programs and the charging of astronomical fees.....but I apologize if I offended you for that was not my intent.
    Gemi523, CNA1991, and TheCommuter like this.
  4. 2
    Quote from AOx1
    I would disagree. I read the words and took them literally. I find it just as offensive to say academics are liars as I do when people state that LPNs are inferior to RNs or ADNs are inferior to BSNs or that A students make better nurses than B students. We see broad generalizations on here frequently that denigrate one group of the profession. If someone states that academics are liars and responsible for causing oversaturation of the market, then I certainly have the right to come here also and state that the majority of us are in academia not just here to keep our job or to line our pockets, but because we care about the profession. I know of no schools locally who are insisting that students are guaranteed a job due to a "nursing shortage."
    You took my words not only literally, but personally. I meant you no disrespect. I am a frequent defender of LPN/ADN/BSN debates. Yet, I still believe that there are definitely schools that are propagated to capitalize on the nursing "boon" and bad economy...(supply and demand) but that by no means was meant to be a personal attack. I was an educator myself and this is my observation.

    I apologize if you were personally offended, I am sure you are an excellent educator...... It is clear you care about your profession and students and work for a legitimate/responsible program. They are not all that way. We will have to agree to disagree.

    I wish you the best.
    VanLpn and TheCommuter like this.
  5. 0
    I think it's more than fair to say that the *recruiters* for these for profit schools are, at best, disingenuous verging on liars. I experienced this first hand. The people at my school clearly make a commission and told potential students they could work in the ICU or labor and delivery as LPNs and told all kinds of lies about job prospects. Now, the actual nursing instructors were a whole other story. They were honest and believed in what they were teaching. But, yes, overall these schools seek to fleece the naive and easily fooled.
  6. 4
    Quote from BrandonLPN
    I think it's more than fair to say that the *recruiters* for these for profit schools are, at best, disingenuous verging on liars. I experienced this first hand. The people at my school clearly make a commission and told potential students they could work in the ICU or labor and delivery as LPNs and told all kinds of lies about job prospects.
    I completed an LPN/LVN program in 2005 at a nonprofit trade school and many of the statements made by the so-called 'admissions representatives' were utter exaggerations.

    These people were telling LPN students that they could work as travel nurses, L&D nurses, flight nurses, etc. However, reality smacked many of the students in the face after graduation when they discovered firsthand that the only places willing to hire them were home health agencies, private duty, LTC, hospice, and clinics.

    LPN travel nurses do exist, but they are a rarity in this day and age and must have the right mix of experience. The vast majority of hospitals in the US will hire only RNs into their L&D units due to issues with scope of practice combined with the high risk medications in use. Moreover, I have not yet heard of an LPN who has secured employment as a flight nurse.
    Gemi523, silenced, BrandonLPN, and 1 other like this.
  7. 0
    quote " I go to work to have a life, i don't have a life so i can work"

    that sounds like : I EAT TO LIVE, I don't LIVE TO EAT.

    ther is a big difference between the two.

    the balance within our self internal structure depends on how we think and act on family relation, personal desires and goals.
  8. 0
    Very Nice
    Last edit by zack1110 on Dec 3, '13
  9. 0
    Nursing Shortage?? *scoff*

    I am an experienced BSN, RN, CCRN. Worked in ICU for 8 years at biggest hospitals in the nation. I left my job to take 6 months of maternity leave. I am now having a very difficult time finding a permanent position. When I graduated 8 years ago, hospitals came to my community college to offer us jobs before we even graduated!! So Im not used to this. Sure, Im picky. I want to work at a large academic hospital in the ICU and not get paid peanuts. But point is, its super competitive out there. If there is a job opening, you are in competition with their current travel nurse who wants to go permanent.

    I SMH at the thousands of students entering nursing school right now and who have graduated nursing school within the past 3 years. It's a tough time. Wishing you all the best and future opportunities.
  10. 1
    “The nursing shortage lies—local major hospital corporations are not hiring nurses, despite continuing to falsely post job openings”
    Knoxville, Tennessee

    December 1, 2013

    After deciding to go to school to become a Registered Nurse, many had the hopes and promises of never being unemployed or ever having to worry about finding a job. So many figured this would be a good investment in their future—but it may be time to reconsider that idea.

    For as long as I can remember, and most definitely for as long as I had aspired to be a nurse, I had been hearing the term ‘nursing shortage’ tossed around by the multiple media streams as well as from other healthcare professionals. It was brought up everywhere. If you looked for example, in the newspaper, you would find ads boasting huge sign on bonuses for Registered Nurses with excellent wages and benefits— some even paid continuing education opportunities.
    Many people began to jump on the bandwagon to obtaining their nursing degrees. With many opting to do BSN programs, there were also many ADN programs that offered nursing education and the ‘RN’ title after only 2 years of study. This made it appealing to a lot of already employed individuals looking for a stable, steady career change. All kinds of nursing programs began to spring up, with as many as 6-10 nursing programs per city or region. Most of these programs here in Knoxville are producing roughly 60-100 nurses every 2 or 4 years depending on the program, but with a job outlook growth projected at “faster than average” and the “shortage of nurses”, it seems like a no brainer! With quotes like this plastered all over the American Nurse’s Association’s website, where could you possibly go wrong?

    The Shortage Isn’t Stopping Soon
You’ve likely heard about the “nursing shortage” for years now, and perhaps you think it’s been resolved. However, registered nurses are still at the top of the list when it comes to employment growth (BLS, 2010).

    What we have failed to see as a society is the impact of market saturation. With so many local nursing programs producing a steady supply of new graduates, it’s not difficult to see that eventually the supply is going to exceed demand in any given geographical region, as it has already done here in Knoxville. But this isn’t the only contributing factor in and of itself. This is just one of the complicating factors in a multiple faceted, bigger issue.
    At the same time we saw such an increase in the amount of nurses that were being turned out into the job market, we also began to see some political changes within the healthcare industry itself, in particularly with the hospitals. Many of the smaller market hospitals began to merge or be ‘bought out’ by larger corporations, such as Covenant Health and Tennova Healthcare Systems. These larger corporations have ended up owning many smaller hospitals and dominate the job market in the Knoxville area. This is a great investment for the corporations, but can be pure disaster for the nurse seeking employment.
    If those two strikes aren’t enough to put nurses behind the eight ball, then add in the fact that many jobs that used to be held only by Registered Nurses are now being filled by Licensed Practical Nurses, Certified Nursing Assistants, and Medical Assistants. This is in part due to an increase in the availability of educational programs for these careers. Also, the job descriptions have changed which allow these individuals to do more than the previously could, thus eliminating the need for RN’s. This also eliminates the need for a company to pay RN wages for the same tasks that can be done by a CNA or LPN.
    This leads to another problem that is wreaking havoc on nursing job opportunities—the greediness of these large corporations. The idea of “doing more with less” has caught on BIG with employers. In jobs, such as retail, this only hurts the employee by working them to a personal limit and exhaustion. In the employer’s eye, if they can get one person to do the work of three people, then why would they want to pay three people? This idea has really taken a hold on the nursing industry as well. The employers however, have neglected to see the real problem with this. When you implement this ideology, not only do you work the employee beyond his or her limits, but you also endanger the lives of patients. I have found this to be the case first hand, working for Covenant Health. This is especially true on medical surgical units and critical care units. It is not uncommon for one nurse to carry the load of 7-8 patients per shift on a medical surgical unit and 3 patients at a time in a critical care unit. This patient to nurse ratio has increase drastically over the past few years and is simply unsafe practice. I can remember having traveling nurses come to our facility, see our nurse to patient ratio and make comments about how ‘unsafe” they felt working with that load. The employers are slowly increasing the workload per person until they find a “breaking point”, which usually consists of a patient harm event and/or a subsequent lawsuit involving patient harm. Unfortunately, patients must be injured or harmed before the issue is viewed in any other light aside from a “bottom line” or “money” issue. Despite bringing these issues up in staff development meeting numerous times, it was always “blown off” as not important. These large corporations are able to get away with such treatment of their employees because of the very thing they are creating—the saturation of nurses and the fact that they dominate the market. If you have nurses that are seeking jobs so desperately, then they are willing to “put up” with harsher working conditions and lower wages in spite of having a “job”. At the same time, the reason for those harsher working conditions is greediness from the employers by not hiring additional nurses to spread the workload out and make conditions safer for everyone. It’s a vicious cycle and until the healthcare corporations such as Covenant and Tennova realize this, they may be facing more patient dissatisfaction and lawsuits than they bargained for.
    Interestingly enough, employers do a great job of “masking” the fact that they aren’t hiring new nurses too. Just go to any large hospital website and view the job opening boards. You would be amazed at the amount of “open” positions that are posted there. I have heard from numerous nurses, that even after applying for upwards of 30 positions, they have yet to receive one call for an interview. I have experienced the same thing first hand. After speaking with one local Human Resources agent, it was apparent that their facility had only hired five RN’s over the past 5 months, despite countless pages of open job postings. I have spoken with several managers who have informed me that hiring is just ‘dead’ and there are no plans to hire additional nurses, especially before the beginning of the year at the earliest. In addition, you never see those attractive ‘sign on’ bonuses that once were a commonplace among nursing positions.
    If these large hospital corporations are not going to hire new nurses, and we have in fact seen the end of the ‘nursing shortage era”, then they at least need to stop feeding the public a constant stream of lies by continuing to post job openings daily. This is a very misleading and dirty way to do business in the community.
    DizzyLizzyNurse likes this.

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