Is this the publics perception of nurses?

[austin heart]

i am a charge RN in a cvicu. yesterday i took care of a man that was pod1 5 vessel cabg on a balloon pump and multiple drips. i had post op'd the pt the previous day so i had developed a repor with he and his family. he was telling me that his daughter is a physical therapist and works in a DR's office yadda yadda, yadda. he then asks me if i make good money beings that i have no college degree. i informed him that i did have a college degree and was very well educated in my field. he stated that he was unaware that you needed to go to college to be a nurse.

i was shocked! this was a very sick man and needed detailed care! is this the perception of the public that anyone can walk in off the street and get a job as a nurse? do they think it is like checking groceries or something? and this was a very well educated man himself. i am still just shocked and offended! has anyone else had this happen?

thanks for letting me vent

[MishlB]

Originally posted by austin heart

i don't know about that. i get asked almost everyday by at least on of my patients "are you an RN?"

i also work in a hospital that only hires RN's. this is printed in pt education material so that all patients know that they are being cared for by an RN. but who reads that stuff?

please, LVN's do not flame me. i, being and RN do not think that i am superior, just stating facts in my facility.

I am in a facility in a small town(Minnesota)...I think there are two four year RN's. The rest are LPN's and ADRN's. They all work together very well, and there are no bitter feelings about degrees or titles. I know this is not the case everywhere, but it can happen. Isn't there a place for all nurses somewhere in healthcare?? The BSN definitely has a place, especially advancement towards teaching, or in certain positions, I understand this. It's funny, during our ADRN program, a nearby major university (in a state with BSN entry into practice still exists, but 'technically' an ADRN can practice with continuing education over 8-10 years.) came to "recruit" us for their 4 year program saying we will make SO much more money and earn SO much more respect with a 4 year degree. (At a mere $170.00 per credit, and they require 33 more credits BEYOND what we have as LPN, ADRN grads!!!) How sad is that. It's all about money to them, not what we learn.

By the way, the grads from this area tend to leave, since pay is horrible anyway!!

[OzNurse69]

In 1993 (I think??) hospital programs here were abolished in favour of university degrees - now everyone who graduates as an RN has a Bachelor of Nursing. I for one get totally confused about the system you guys have over there - how would it be for someone who is not personally involved in the health care system (other than as a patient)?

I agree with Susy (now don't all have heart failure!) - if there was a shortage of any other profession, e.g. physiotherapists, you would not hear "let's have another alternative mode of entry into the profession, so that we can increase our numbers". Clearly that has not worked, so why not accept that a single mode of entry into nursing would simplify the whole system?

Now I'm not saying our way is perfect, we are suffering from the nursing shortage just as much as anyone else. HOWEVER we are no worse off than you guys. Here it is simply accepted that if you want to do nursing, you go to uni. And the uprooting & moving argument doesn't wash with me either - check out the distances between universities in Australia - lot further apart than in the US, I can tell you. Yet people who are motivated & wish to pursue this as a career still move towns to achieve their goals.

JMHO....

[Q.]

However, I do see your point. And I agree. (choke - LOL)

I agree with Susy (now don't all have heart failure!)

What the heck?! I see a pattern here.... Is agreeing with me taboo?

[Q.]

Originally posted by MishlB

NEWSFLASH....most patients and their families don't know the difference between CNA, LPN, RN, and NP.

Now that is a tragedy. Not knowing the difference b/t an aide, a nurse, and a nurse-practitioner is our own damn fault, because, there are vast differences and the public should be informed about WHO is taking care of them. Blurring the lines between them is something WE do and WE allow to be done, and I haven't a clue why.

[Pretzlgl]

I was just teasing you Suzy..

[rncountry]

When I went into nursing I was 25 years old, two children and married. I was one of the youngest in my class. If there had been no ADN program I would not have been able to go into nursing for the reasons listed above. A 4 year university was simply not an option no matter what career field I would have choosen. What needs to be realized is that regardless of whether you do a ADN, BSN or Diploma the core nursing classes are basicly the same. Suzy, there is a study out there that I have from Health and Human resources I believe, that shows the demographics of RN's. There are more ADN grads then BSN grads, and I believe there is a reason for that. It does have to do with how many nurses are either in a second career or how many didn't start college until after they had started families, IMHO. I am a proponent of one starting point for everyone who wishes to be a nurse, and personally believe the LPN should be fazed out, but do not necessarily feel that a BSN should be that point of entry. Perhaps that is my own prejudice because in my years of nursing I do see that BSN students come out better prepared than ADN students, if I saw a difference than perhaps I would feel that the BSN nurse is the way to go.

In my work I see LPNs who are basicly expected to do the job of the RNs for much less pay, and I believe that is crap. The LPNs were I work aren't supposed to take verbal or telephone orders because apparently they can't hear as well as I do, yet they are supposed to be able to do a competant assessement and make decisions based on that assessment, at the same time an RN is supposed to cosign the assessment and sign off the chart at the end of the shift all the while still taking care of their own patients. LPN's also cannot do IVP, which is the majority of our meds, can't hang TPN, or blood, which we do on a regular basis. All this does is create problems between staff and delays for patients. But it really irks me that the LPNs are expected to more or less function in the role of the RN for their patients while getting paid several dollars less an hour. I don't understand why anyone would want to do that.

The other thing to think about Suzy, is that while ADN programs are touted as 2 year programs for nurses, the vast majority of people who go through the program do not do it in 2 years, they do it in three years. Prereq's and then nursing. I did mine in two years and I never had less than 18 credit hours a semester, my oldest son who started Western Michigan Univerisity this last fall could not even take more than 12 credit hours his first semester, that is a University policy. You know what classes I missed out on by doing an ADN? The history of medical art. The history of Florence Nightengale and nursing. Statistics. One of my best friends finished her BSN at MSU a couple years ago, the BS classes she had to take to do so were nothing more, to me anyway, than a way to increase profits for the school. And she'd be the first one to tell you that everything she needed to have in order to be a nurse was taught to her in the same ADN course she took that I had.

What needs to be understood I think, is that there are way too many BSN nurses who look down their noses at ADN and Diploma nurses. I know for myself that attitude pisses me off mighty quick. I absolutely hate that " it will make us a profession" as if not having a degree does not make one a professional. Did Tiger Woods go to a 4 year university and get a degree in professional golf? Yet he is still a professional golfer. If one looks up professional in Webster's dictionary the definition given is NOT the definition given by many nursing instuctors. But then an awful lot of them like to make up the rules as they go along so why should that be any different? I agree completely with a standardized education, but that does not mean it has to be a BSN. If we want to model ourselves after the docs should we also do a residency? Should we have a 4 year nursing degree and then another couple years into a speciality so we have nurses who can do just peds or just OB when they get out of school? Should we have programs that are for those that want to do patient care, and another for those that do not intend on doing patient care but need a background in nursing to do what they want to? Things have changed in healthcare after all. You see where I'm going with this right? How much is enough? Or maybe I really did need that course on the history of medical art to be able to do what I do, after all I take pictures of wounds every week, maybe it would have helped me take better, more relevent pictures.

[rncountry]

I meant I do NOT see BSN students come out more prepared than ADN students.

[Pretzlgl]

Originally posted by rncountry

What needs to be understood I think, is that there are way too many BSN nurses who look down their noses at ADN and Diploma nurses. I know for myself that attitude pisses me off mighty quick. I absolutely hate that " it will make us a profession" as if not having a degree does not make one a professional.

Yep, that's what irks me too...

[PediRN]

As a manager (please no rotten tomato throwing!!), I have observed that newly graduated ADNs are far more capable as staff nurses than their BSN counterparts. I have been both, and felt better prepared as an ADN graduate to do floor nursing. My BSN was just a piece of paper that I needed to go to graduate school. I learned far more about bedside nursing from my ADN program.

[SmilingBluEyes]

The ONLY added-value a BSN will have for ME is the possibility to teach future *ADN* or BSN student nurses one day...that's it. I don't see ANY difference among my coworkers who holds a BSN, Diploma or ADN (and indeed, with some, I have NO clue, nor do I give a damn.). If I as a coworker and RN herself, cannot see the difference, how can I expect the public I serve to? Or to CARE?

Oh, and this argument FOR THE VIABILITY OF and NEED FOR ADN PROGRAMS is NOT cyclic, as you assume. Even as recently as 1997 when I graduated, the instructors and director of the nursing program told us we would have to "fight" for jobs, (no nursing shortage in Southwest Oklahoma then). AND yes I WAS discussing NURSING STUDENT STATS, not current work force. But hey, guess what, the newly graduated BSN's were not getting hired over me. We were ALL green and useless in their eyes as graduate nurses who had a lot to prove.

So if you ask ME, a practicing RN, (and a good one), when a BSN degree is needed to help ME advance MY status in MY current career, it is not any time soon. It won't make me a better nurse in the area I work in, either. I am only pursuing it to open OTHER doors that may not be bedside-nursing related...(I wish to teach, actually). That and it would be for my personal growth and satisfaction, sure as HELL not to impress John Q. Public, my coworkers or YOU.

[Q.]

As a BSN nurse, I felt I learned far more ON THE JOB than any school. Schooling, whether it's an Associates or a Bachelor's, is prepartory for entry-level practice, certainly not meant to make you an expert practitioner.

As a Bachelor's in Computer Science grad, my friend felt she learned far more ON THE JOB than any school.

As a Bachelor's in PT grad, my friend felt she learned far more ON THE JOB than any school.

My point? No one said (or should say) that a BSN nurse is "better" than an ADN nurse, and I think people often compare ADNs to BSNs and say "well, that ADN could prime that tubing much better." So?! Is THAT what a nurse is?

I DO know that I am thankful for all the non-nursing courses I took, because that's what makes me a person. I am a wife and daughter and sister first, also a member of the human race, before I was ever a nurse.

[Pretzlgl]

Originally posted by Susy K

I DO know that I am thankful for all the non-nursing courses I took, because that's what makes me a person. I am a wife and daughter and sister first, also a member of the human race, before I was ever a nurse.

Wow, that's what makes a person a person? What makes ME a person are my likes/dislikes, personality, values, morals, ethics, contribution to society, spirituality, etc. etc. I always hear from bachelors prepared folks that all the classes taken make for a more well rounded individual. Funny, my brother clepped out of every irrelevant course he could. That is great for your personal experience, but YOUR experience is not for everyone. And I know, I know, you did not say that....but Susy, you imply it.