Hospital Requiring BSN or your pay will be Capped?

[BlearnRN]

Is any other hospital out there doing this? We have just been told that if you do not have a BSN, your pay will be capped and you cannot be promoted past a certain point. Oh and also the nurses that have been there a million year--they are making them either take a demotion in title or go back for a certification/BSN in order to stay at their payrate and title. There is talk about having the million year nurses being "granfathered" in ...... But about this whole thing ---I don't think this is really a smart thing to do especially in a recession and shortage. People are considering leaving and going to a hospital that does not do this. What do you think?

[RNsRWe, ASN, RN]

I am an LPN that does not wish to become an RN. In my area at this time, LPNs are not being phased out, really. But, I do have a concern when hospitals are applying for magnet, it may leave LPNs at a disadvantage. But, I'll say this; if they offer me a position as a chart auditor or something a bit less stressful than patient care, I would do it in heartbeat, and work as an LPN as a side job.

You know, I'm with you on this (the less-stressed job offer)! But they don't seem to see it that way, they figure they're nurses (obviously) and shouldn't be forced out of a nursing role. But the problem is, scope of practice and the requirements of the acute floors seem to dictate differently. We have some lousy LPNs, some FABulous LPNs; it's just that the hospital is having difficulty covering the gap between what they can do and what they need to do. They can't just staff for a certain number of nurses anymore; if they have LPNs on, the RNs have more work to do, that's just how it is.

Me, I'd take that role as chart auditor or care tech (what, no charting??) if I were them!

[brissygal, BSN, RN]

Sorry to be cynical Mexarican but Caliotter3 , has got it precisely !

What a wonderful way to get rid of experienced nurses ( who coincidentally are expensive ) , whilst upgrading to newly graduated BSN Nurses , who are generally younger , idealistic and cheap.

I am sorry to intrude in this discussion as an outsider although I am a nurse in Australia and have nurse in your country. I just don't get your attitude?

What you learn on the job is so much more valuable than what you learn at University. Don't get me wrong learning through University is great to get the clinical side downpacked but nurses that have experience on the floor from years of nursing. I am afraid the new nurses just don't have that experience. You can't get the experience from a text book you have to earn it through hardwork and repetition. In any case a nurse with many years experience is a great teacher to young ones and new graduates coming into the system. I think in the long run it would cost the hospital more if you were simply to remove the experienced nurses off the ward.

What do other think?

[time4meRN]

really..... this statement is wrong in so many ways i don't know where to start. if i'm orienting someone who has a bsn but, has no idea of how to do their job...... that will be the day i will leave nursing all together. if you become sick i hope there is an experienced nurse there to care for you, if not good luck ! this is a form of descriminaion against age. i would like for you to explain to me how taking religion, research or tennis makes you a better nurse. does it make one a better nurse or the university more weathy? my vote is the latter. don't get me wrong, i'm for higher education, but lets get the basics down before we try to further ourselves. you can't give what you don't have.

[time4meRN]

Well, education in the US is much different than across the pond. I can speak for UK, the education there is much more intune with the practice of nursing. The trend in the US seems to be more focused on things that can broaden education, but less focused on how to care for pt's, critical thinking etc. Like I have said before, I'm all for broadinging education but not at the expense of the patient. If you get out of school with no idea of how to care for a critical pt or team of pt's than we are doing our profession a dishonor. When I was in Scotland, it seemed the new nurses graduated actually knowing how to do the job. Of course there are always those things that you can't learn until you see it but, this shouldn't be the case with basics. It seemed Scottish nurses didn't need education on how to care for a pt for 6 to 8 weeks. Then once out of oreintation, still not a "strong" team member. (meaning you can't count on them when the crap hits the fan). It is wounderful to know how to play tennis and all about the different religions of the world and how to do research to you can produce an article in a nursing magazine but, If the nurse is caring for my mother, they had better know what to do when time counts. I don't care if they can tell me all about Scottish Presbyterian vs, Scottish Catholic practices or if they are going to go home to score on the court.

[FireStarterRN, BSN, RN]

A way to "upgrade" the workforce and replace workers by attrition. Every nurse who leaves, is one less that the hospital has to pay out retirement benefits to. Can be replaced by a new nurse at less pay, perhaps with less benefits. A tactic used by many employers to manipulate their bottom line. They also get the advantage of having something to brag about to the public by insinuating that their nurses are of a higher caliber.

Well said. I totally agree and have nothing else to add!

[FireStarterRN, BSN, RN]

I disagree. BSN and ADN graduates all had to pass the same state boards. I would rather have an experienced ADN RN than a new BSN RN care for me. Having a BSN does not automatically make someone a "better" nurse. When graduates from a BSN program are required to pass a completely different and more difficult state board exam, then I will reconsider my position.

Bedside nursing is actually mostly learned on the job, through experience. Our education provides the knowledge base to just get us started in this, but nursing in mostly old-fashioned, on the job training, plus pursuit of specialty specific continuing education.

I don't really see much different in the BSNs I work with. There's a lot of degree inflation these days, in my opinion.

[lindarn]

Nursing needs to get over the attitude that new grads need to be able to hit the ground running, or they did not have a satisfactory student experience.

PTs, OTs, Pharmacists, MDs, all have a mandatory internship before they are turned loose on patients. They have sacrificed hands on training at the student level for more education. They ALL MAKE MORE MONEY THAN NURSES, AND HAVE MORE RESPECT THAN NURSES DO. Could it be that the public equates worth with education? They may think that nurses are wonderful but just let nurses ask for the same amount of pay of PTs, OTs Pharmacists, and you would hear the howl- but you only went to school for two years!!

Nursing should ALSO have an internship of at least six months after graduation. There would be a lot less "sticker shock", after graduation, and alot less attrition from new grads who are left to sink or swim and leave the profession after 1-2 years. Get over it and accept more education for nurses.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

[time4meRN]

jlsRN Well said. :yeah:

[NightshiftRN69]

I agree with the poster who stated the ADN nurse and the BSN or Masters degree nurse all take the same NCLEX. I have been a ADN RN for just over two years now and there have been times when I have asked a BSN nurse with ten years on the floor a question about renal function before during and after renal failure because I just couldn't remember if it was high out put at the begining or after and she had no idea on another night I was asking about lithum and it's affect on potassium and sodium as far as which would be increased on lab values and she again couldn't answer and acted as if I had lost my mind on both occassions so what do I need a BSN for? As far as supervisors and management again knowing the answers to hospital policy and procedure and not telling me "well you wont get in trouble for doing more than you have too" is more important than the fact that she too had BSN after her name. I feel that until nursing as a profession stops putting one another down due to what degree or even deploma they have and stand together to provide the best possible care for the patient that we care for then nursing as a whole will never be all it can be. And this includes our very valuable LPN's as well. There are RN's who hate working with LPN and or treat them as nothing more than unlisenced help. Yes RN's have more duties but there have been some LPN's that I would rather have with me on a floor than nurses like I mentioned earlier. Before we can demand respect from the world we must first respect each other.