Glutton for Punishment?

Nurses General Nursing

Published

Preface: Sorry this is so long, summary at the bottom.

So I got into an argument with these two women about the fact that there is absolutely no law on the books about BSNs being required by 2020 (also including LVNs being phased out of hospitals). I told them I've been an nurse for 7 years & have heard that since I started. The first woman told me that she was told this by an advisor at her daughter's school, who is a nurse with advanced degrees. I told the first woman that the advisor shouldn't be spreading such lies without documentation to back up what she is saying. I was also shocked that someone with an advanced degree would say something like that with no proof.

Needless to say the second woman got pissed off too & jumped in on the bandwagon. I asked both women several times for proof of the 2020 rule/law but never received anything. I did get shown an op/ed piece from the second woman but now law stating LVNs would be allowed to work in hospitals & all RNs would be forced to get their BSNs.

Both woman continued to bash LVNs & talk about how this nurse new more about this "law" than me. How LVNs kill more people in acute care & how unsafe they are. Did I mention that neither women are nurses! LOL!

I provided them with proof that LVNs are still being hired into hospital positions in the state of Texas as well as ADN grads. I tried to explain to both of the women that it isn't a law but up to the hospital if they want to hire LVNs, ADNs or BSNs. But according to those to, in 2.5 years all the LVNs & ADNs working in hospitals will be SOL & out of jobs.

Do they know something we all don't? I asked for proof over & over. Where is this magical law that states LVNs can't work in hospitals & RNs *must* be BSN prepared to work in hospitals by 2020? I figured you guys could lead me to the law since those two couldn't.

i guess I just like beating my head against a wall for funsies. Because that's what it was like. No matter how I tried explaining to them, it could've been in any language, they didn't believe me. Probably because I'm "just an LVN". But because an RN with a BSN & MSN told them, it *has* to be true.

It just blows my mind that 2 "educated" people can't realize that after a simple Google search what that nurse said wasn't true. Just because someone says something, doesn't make it a fact.

TL;DR: Two women said the BSN by 2020 was a law (also LVNs being phased out of hospitals), I tried to show them otherwise. They didn't believe me because they were told so by an RN & I'm "just an LVN". Neither women are nurses nor could they show me any proof of said law while I showed them proof of LVNs & ADNs being hired in TX hospitals.

This made me laugh. They don't make "laws" about degrees. A hospital can require a degree to hire or day the BON can make the entry level degree required to sit for NCLEX a BSN, but not a law.

People kill me with their ignorance.

Specializes in school nurse.

Academia is an industry, and they have a vested interest in perpetuating "credential inflation". I've heard talk of some people pushing an MSN as entry-level for practice.

We haven't even settled the BSN issue and that space shot idea is floating about. I don't know how everyone feels, but I doubt that the inevitable increased number of APA papers that that would mean would mean squat to quality care...

Meh. I don't even engage those people anymore.

I don't know where the concept of LPNs being less than everything else came from, and at this point, I don't even care anymore.

I read a thread on FB yesterday where a group of EMTs were talking about how it wasn't fair they couldn't apply for an LPN position because "EMTs are WAY above LPNs on education, skills, and experience". I just shook my head and kept scrolling.

12 years of that crap was enough for me. It gets old really quick. Don't let that garbage in your head or your heart. They won't listen anyways.

Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
Sometimes I wonder if there is a social class angle to this.

Nursing seems to becoming a gentrified neighborhood. Think of a lot of the original residents of the nursing neighborhood as the LVNs and the ADNs who went to community college and a lot of them are from working class backgrounds.

The new people moving in come from a few rungs higher on the social scale, and 4 year college educations come standard. Higher education, advanced practice become commonplace, and there is a culture clash of what nursing is and who belongs.

That's an awesome analogy & sad but true. I don't want to get into an LVN vs. ADN vs. BSN debate because all nurses are important. But laypeople believe BSN & higher educated nurses are the be all & end all of nursing. Whereas LVNs, ADNs & diploma nurses are just the glorified butt wipers of nursing. When did that happen & why??

Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
There are just some very misguided people out there that believe the degree is the only important measure of education. I've worked with LPN's that have more practical knowledge than most RN's, I've had the privilege of working with a few diploma RN's and boy was that a thorough education! They could run circles around just about anybody. It's just not worth letting some fool get under your skin that thinks just because the information came from an MSN level nurse that it must be right. I for one really don't feel the need to get a PhD just to prove I must be more right than the MSN nurse.

I told them the same thing. But they seemed to believe that LVNs & ADNs were useless. I don't think they ever heard of diploma nurses & that LVNs kill more people than all RNs combined. Where is *that* study???

Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
Idk. With those types of people I like to say, "Oh ok" and move along. And no, pretty sure that's not a law, seeing as my employer is absolutely fine with me not having my BSN by 2020 and also seeing as my employer is still hiring LPNs (it's a hospital by the way).

Exact same thing with the hospital system where I live. If they aren't forcing me to get my BSN, I might not get it. What's the point?

Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
Oh, OC. You do love yourself a good pissing contest, lol.

Lol. Eh, it had been awhile since I had a real good one!

Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
The DSM definition of a delusion is "a firm, fixed belief in spite of evidence to the contrary".

The People you were dealing with were delusional, OrganizedChaos.

They're out there. And they haven't been formally diagnosed.

Oh, might I add the woman who is applying to nursing school next year said she is a better "nurse" than most real nurses. I asked her how she could be a better nurse than any nurse when she is, in fact, not a nurse. She won't even be a nurse in nursing school. She won't be a nurse until she passes the NCLEX.

I also told the same woman that nurse is a protected title & that she couldn't go around saying she was a nurse. But then she pulled up definitions of nurse & said no, LVN/RN/APRN are protected titles; not nurse. So then I asked this "nurse" a nursing question which she not only failed, she answered horribly. Her reply? It's Facebook, I'm not at work so I don't need to answer you properly.

The other woman, who is a teacher by the way, butted in & said I'm not a nurse (wow didn't realize that even though it says so in my title, lol) just a glorified butt wiper. That LVNs are "just licensed" & RNs are "registered". Does that make *any* damn sense to you?!? LOL! And this woman is supposedly educated!

Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
This made me laugh. They don't make "laws" about degrees. A hospital can require a degree to hire or day the BON can make the entry level degree required to sit for NCLEX a BSN, but not a law.

People kill me with their ignorance.

Yeah, I had a migraine by the time I was done. Not to mention their personal attacks on me/LVNs. But that says more about them, than me & the fact that they knew they didn't have any legs to stand on in that argument. Because I never took it personal or cursed at them.

Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
Academia is an industry, and they have a vested interest in perpetuating "credential inflation". I've heard talk of some people pushing an MSN as entry-level for practice.

We haven't even settled the BSN issue and that space shot idea is floating about. I don't know how everyone feels, but I doubt that the inevitable increased number of APA papers that that would mean would mean squat to quality care...

Told them the same thing. Again, don't wanna start a debate about BSN educated nurses because all nurses are important. But how is writing papers going to help any nurse save lives? I vote for more clinical time, not papers.

What's funny is the woman who is applying to go to nursing school is applying to ADN programs. You think this whole time she was arguing with me she would be applying to BSN programs. Why would she be arguing with me about some nonexistent law that apparently bothers her so much when she isn't even acting on it? That made no sense to me.

Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
Meh. I don't even engage those people anymore.

I don't know where the concept of LPNs being less than everything else came from, and at this point, I don't even care anymore.

I read a thread on FB yesterday where a group of EMTs were talking about how it wasn't fair they couldn't apply for an LPN position because "EMTs are WAY above LPNs on education, skills, and experience". I just shook my head and kept scrolling.

12 years of that crap was enough for me. It gets old really quick. Don't let that garbage in your head or your heart. They won't listen anyways.

I don't understand why people in the healthcare feel the need to bash each other. We all should come together & help each other. We have people's lives in our hands! I don't care if you're an LVN, ADN, diploma nurse or BSN. I just want to work as a team!

Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.

I want to add that the woman going to nursing school eventually changed her story & said she never said there was a law. She is doing what she feels is best for her. But if she is doing what she feels is best for her education, wouldn't that be getting her BSN, not an ADN since she feels so strongly about the IOM's push for 80% of RNs having their BSN?

She then tried to tell me there was a nursing shortage. Like the first thing wasn't bad enough! So she showed me 1 news article about a school discussing how badly nurses are needed. Because we all know schools aren't out to get your money. She didn't send me any articles on the research that is done about how there is no shortage currently or all the new grads that discuss how they can't get jobs. One article from a school that said there is a shortage.

Also, she told me hospitals would lose funding from Medicaid & Medicare if they don't listen to the IOM's recommendation. Say what!? It's a recommendation, not a law. I seriously questioned her if she knew what the word recommendation (also organization) ment. I told her health care is a business & all they care about is making money. The hospital in my town currently employs LVNs & ADNs & they get funding from Medicaid & Medicare.

One last thing I remembered is that she said new grads can run circles around experienced nurses. That scared me. I told her several times that if a new grad thinks that, they will hurt or kill someone. So not only does this woman think she is a nurse & is capable of doing our job when she has never been in nursing school. She thinks after she have been through nursing school & sat for the NCLEX she will be able to out nurse experienced nurses. YIKES!

Honestly, both women were full of so much horse bologna that it literally made my head hurt. When they started hurling personal insults I knew they knew they were wrong. But two adult women who are old enough to be *my* mother acting like high schoolers is painful.

I won't be surprised if the woman who ends up being a nurse complains her preceptor is a bully & comes on here to whine about NETY. I feel bad for her future preceptor because that woman is not someone who accepts the truth, deals with criticism well or will admit when she's wrong. She will have a short nursing career.

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