Direct entry Master of Science in Nursing programs

mindlor · Apr 25, 2011

Well there it is folks, its the opinion of hospital management and the folks in HR that matter.....caveat emptor

blixkanaan, MSN, APRN · Nov 27, 2017

Please just go the traditional route people. Don't just go straight through. Get RN experience first.

cleback · Nov 27, 2017

I have only spoken to two direct entry nurses... both being in my dnp. They said it was mistake--a lot of work and expense and no one wanted to hire them as a new grad. The only plus suse they said was a few of the classes in the DNP program were satisfied by the msn program. But the number wasn't sufficient to decrease the total time in the dnp program.

Personally, I would not do it. I need some time for reflection to feel comfortable in a new role. Completing an RN education in the shortest time possible would not work for me. And I would want to be compensated for the extra effort a master's education would entail. I would also want to be as marketable as possible at graduation. Whether it's justified or not, there seems to be too much controversy with the direct entry msn. My two cents...

blixkanaan, MSN, APRN · Nov 27, 2017

You're 100% correct when you say that you will be less marketable if you have no RN experience and did a direct entry to practice program. There are some exceptional schools that do this, and those students have a better shot (i.e., Columbia, Vanderbilt, Harvard). But unless you wen't to a highly exceptional school that offers direct entry, I would go the traditional route. Go to your local community college and get your BSN then work for a couple of years, then go to a good local university and get your MSN.

mmc51264, BSN, MSN, RN · Nov 28, 2017

there was another thread on this topic somewhere. I just don't understand the mentality of this. I had to have a minimum of 2 years nursing experience to apply for a non-clinical MSN. I could have done an ADN-MSN but still had to have nursing experience. I did get my BSN before applying to grad school. I have a previous BS and a previous MA. That helped me because I didn't need any electives and I did not have to take the GRE but I still needed to be a nurse.

blixkanaan, MSN, APRN · Nov 28, 2017

To me it does make sense. If you want to get, really, any graduate degree in nursing, you just gotta have the nursing experience. Plus you won't be as marketable without the experience. Maybe in your case you won't have any issues since you other degrees, but honestly I can't say for sure with your particular case. I just wouldn't want to hire someone that has nursing as part of their title who has never worked a day in his/her life a a nurse.

VidyaNC · Aug 23, 2019

Just curious. I see that this thread was opened in 2011 and the last reply was in 2017. Now here I am in 2019!

Since then, the direct entry-MSN may have been more acceptable?? I agree with the previous poster who stated that the direct entry route is relative based on your situation and your chances of getting a job is based on who you know (my paraphrasing).

My question for you seasoned nurses out there.

I am leaning more heavily onto the direct entry route due to time and money.

I am midlife with young children so I do not have the luxury of time to go from ADN to BSN. BSN to MSN. My final goal is to become a nurse scientist (Ph.D.)!

I do not want to do bedside nursing or be stuck in a clinical role for the rest of my life. I am not saying that that is bad, I have been a teacher for 15 years and a CNA for over 7 years and I am ready for a more hands-off approach. I have always wanted to become a nurse it is just that I am a late bloomer and now I feel that time is not on my side and I need to step things up to live my dream (and not by accident 'suggest' this profession on my kids because I didn't get to practice nursing) ?

I married late, etc. you get the idea! I wanted to go to get my LPN but courses are not available in the evening in my neck of the woods. Nor are evening, weekend nor hybrid programs available for LPN, APN or BSN ?

So with that being said, I investigated and did the pros and cons. I am finishing up my BS online shortly and am seriously thinking about the direct entry.

My question(s) now after a little background into my decision.

If I were to get my direct entry MSN, will my years of HUC and CNA help make up for lack of bedside nursing? I know it is not the same as RN experience. I'm just saying as opposed to not having any health care experience.

Or

Go and get my LPN (1 course for three terms) to get a step up from CNA then use my LPN to go into an MSN-PhD program?

I have a feeling that the second option might grant me more opportunities but I just wanted to hear the verdict.

Thanks :)

blixkanaan, MSN, APRN · Aug 23, 2019

Hi, can I just be honest? It's commendable that you are going back to school in the middle of your life but frankly, no one will care about that or what your story is. You just aren't going to have the respect of your peers if they know that you did some direct entry program with ZERO nursing experience, regardless of what your reasoning is. Especially if the program is online. And absolutely not, your HUC experience is not equivalent to RN experience. RNs unlike any other HUC or CNA must learn and develop critical thinking skills.

My advice: at least work as an RN for 1 + years. Get your feet wet in a unit in the hospital like medical/surgical, telemetry, or ICU floors. Try to do it for many years and become an excellent floor nurse FIRST. Then go back and get your masters at a reputable brick and mortar school. The reason NPs, to even this day, are preferred in many practices over other providers like PAs and sometimes even physicians, is because of the knowledge that NPs come with. That is, our education + lots of RN experience that is brought to the table. Direct entry and online program graduates are completely ruining that reputation unfortunately...If you don't listen to any of my advice and you MUST go to a direct entry program, then apply to the best of the best schools. Go to a school like Columbia, John Hopkins, Vanderbilt, etc. Look for the best schools and see if they have direct entry programs. Otherwise, don't do it.

Physicians and hospitals are not stupid. When you get a job, they are going to ask how much experience you have and where you went to school. They will want to know if it's online. You will be competing for jobs against people like me who went to brick and mortar school and worked years in the ICU and medical telemetry units as an RN. Why would they hire you over someone like me? Just think of it that way...

Good luck.

LoveAnatomy · Sep 2, 2019

On 4/25/2011 at 2:32 AM, Malefocker said:
I am going to chime in and give my 2 cents for the other side... I personally did a ton of research as I too have a BA and am looking to get into nursing... I chose to do a direct entry masters NP program for a couple of reasons.... right now I think I want to be a NP. The whole program is around 40K and since I know that I eventually want a MSN to pay for a BSN and then pay to get a MSN is crazy... and would cost me twice as much money. Getting an ASN does not work for me because the programs in my area are all wait listed and I do not want to wait 2 or 3 years to start nursing school when I could start in the fall. After the BSN portion I am able to take a year off and come back and start my MSN/NP portion... if I work that year and then through the 18 months while getting my NP, even if that is part time that is around 2 and 1/2 years of bedside nursing experience... The last reason for choosing this route is because I want as many options as possible. The economy is crazy right now so maybe in 14 months when I get my BSN I may not be able to find a job. If this is the case, then I will not take a year off and will continue on and get my NP. Maybe I will get my BSN and become a bedside nurse and absolutely love it... Then I would chose not to return back for my NP. I have read hours and hours of threads on this very subject and this is what I think....The people who make the connections in hospitals whether that be personal connections or work connections are going to get the jobs It doesn't matter whether they have an ASN, BSN, or MSN... Doing a direct entry MSN does not make you more marketable and if anything may even make you less marketable as a bedside RN because it makes sense that employers don't want to hire a Nurse who is going to put there year in and move on to an APRN role. Some hospitals however will hire you because you have an MSN and they want to train you in leadership roles. That being said every person is different and the reason why this is such a debated topic is because for some people the direct entry masters is the way to go and for others an ASN is the way to go and for others a BSN. There isn't a right answer so when you ask is this is a good idea? The answer is yes and no!! You have to sit down and evaluate what your future goals are as a nurse? What is your financial situation like? Family situation like? Where do you live? What types of nursing schools are in your area? Are you willing to relocate? And a whole bunch of other stuff. I personally know a woman who went through a direct entry NP program was in real estate sales before absolutely no health care experience didn't work a day as a bedside nurse and now works at Kaiser as a FNP and makes a great salary and is well respected amongst her colleagues. If you ask her the direct entry route was the best decision she ever made. Just my 2 cents!

Thanks for your thoughtful post. I have been looking into this Direct Entry MSN tract for the past few weeks for the same reasons as yours. Its great to know some successful stories and some insights about the training, and especially the job market for these MSN new grads.

I am actually flunked out from a physician assistant program 4 weeks ago due to the academic reason in circumstances. I am devastated, and just cant accept the fact that medicine is over to me. I loved everything second in class learning about medicine and diseases. I cant give up my dream, vision, and purpose. I chose medicine for a very clear and good reason, not for money at all.

So, to second your post, I wonder if anyone in here knows how competitive it is to get in Direct entry MSN? Would schools still consider me as i was dismissed from PA program? (a bit of the stats: I do have lots of volunteer hours and patient care experiences, GRE: 303, GPA: > 3.66 including the messy GPA from the PA program). Am I still having a chance in healthcare, nursing?

Thanks for any thoughts sharing here.

LoveAnatomy · Sep 2, 2019

On 8/23/2019 at 8:15 AM, blixkanaan said:
Hi, can I just be honest? It's commendable that you are going back to school in the middle of your life but frankly, no one will care about that or what your story is. You just aren't going to have the respect of your peers if they know that you did some direct entry program with ZERO nursing experience, regardless of what your reasoning is. Especially if the program is online. And absolutely not, your HUC experience is not equivalent to RN experience. RNs unlike any other HUC or CNA must learn and develop critical thinking skills.
My advice: at least work as an RN for 1 + years. Get your feet wet in a unit in the hospital like medical/surgical, telemetry, or ICU floors. Try to do it for many years and become an excellent floor nurse FIRST. Then go back and get your masters at a reputable brick and mortar school. The reason NPs, to even this day, are preferred in many practices over other providers like PAs and sometimes even physicians, is because of the knowledge that NPs come with. That is, our education + lots of RN experience that is brought to the table. Direct entry and online program graduates are completely ruining that reputation unfortunately...If you don't listen to any of my advice and you MUST go to a direct entry program, then apply to the best of the best schools. Go to a school like Columbia, John Hopkins, Vanderbilt, etc. Look for the best schools and see if they have direct entry programs. Otherwise, don't do it.
Physicians and hospitals are not stupid. When you get a job, they are going to ask how much experience you have and where you went to school. They will want to know if it's online. You will be competing for jobs against people like me who went to brick and mortar school and worked years in the ICU and medical telemetry units as an RN. Why would they hire you over someone like me? Just think of it that way...
Good luck.

Hi @blixkanaan!

Can I ask you a question? since you seem to provide honest insightful opinions, and i appreciate that.

I just posted one post before this that I am considering the Entry level MSN with the thought that this training will make me eligible to sit on NCLEX to become an RN. My goal is the become an RN and with Master degree, I can teach or do clinical research (my background is more in doing research), or if I have good condition, I would continue to become NP so I can treat patients (this is my true dream for the PA program that I flunked out).

I guess i am still not getting it why RN from MSN is less competent and desirable than RN from BSN since both pathways make RN in the end, and both tracts help students pass the board exam?

Much thanks for your time!

blixkanaan, MSN, APRN · Sep 2, 2019

@LoveAnatomy, because passing NCLEX board exam is one thing, but passing board exam + RN experience is another. Just because you passed the boards doesn’t make you a competent nurse. As I mentioned in my previous many posts on this thread, It makes absolutely no sense for someone to become an NP when they don’t have that experience of working in the field. I know you mentioned that you may get some experience with your program, but many students that do direct entry programs have very little to no experience as RNs, and having worked with those NPs, it shows. They are often book smart and can pass the board exams, but their examination skills are poor and their critical thinking skills are even worse. They just haven’t developed as clinicians. As your above example shows, there are some exceptions. But not everyone may be as driven as your FNP friend at Kaiser.

And to speak to your point earlier about how it doesn’t matter what your degree is, as long as you make the connections. That is just partly the truth. I used to advise my administrator colleagues, when working at a small practice (who btw often know little about hiring good NPs) not to hire NPs with no RN experience. And they would listen! And where I work now, I’m a large hospital setting, they only hire NPs with lots of background experience and good RN careers behind them. We have one direct entry NP where I work now, but he at least did a 1 year residency after his MSN to get that additional training. He is better for that but it is still obvious that he lacks that clinical knowledge acquired as a bedside RN.

Lastly, I don’t want to sound insensitive, but why is it that the NP programs for you and the other most recent poster @Malefocker use NP programs as your back up to PA school? Why not just apply at another PA program? To me that just shows exactly what is wrong with NP schools. We should only be accepting the best RNs and not flunked out PA students with no RN experience...I’m sorry again if thats insensitive, but it really is the sentiment of many nurses, and in my mind, is the absolute truth.

Either way, I wish you all the best of luck.