BSN vs. Associates

[askater]

I keep reading the topic about Dying career. I keep reading seeing what WE CAN DO. And what's brought up time and time again is associate nurses putting down bachelors and vice a versa. I thought I'd open a thread...because I see it's a HOT topic.

I'm a BSN nurse. I'm proud of my accomplishments. I'm an excellent nurse. I've learned far more after graduating than my 4 years in high school. And I'm sure that's true for BSN and ADN nurses.

I've had 3 different bosses. One had her associates degree. She was the worse boss ever. Not because she had an associates, but because she had a very negative personality. My other 2 bosses have there BSN. THe one boss was excellent. He supported our unit and wasn't just thinking about saving money. My current boss has a BSN. She doesn't support us, she thinks about saving every penny. I feel it's a lot to do about personality and not what degree each nurse had.

The ADN nurses that said BSN...are no better than ADN. Do you feel that BSN colleges should be closed and ALL nurses have associate degress.

Also do your hospital have better benefits for BSN. The hospitals I work at don't. I make the same as all RN's.

I hope we can have a nice discussion Thanks

[4students]

Fellow nurses,

Try not to take this issue personally. From some of the responses, it seems that some nurses are taking this as a personal attack. No names are mentioned.

The point of this discussion was not to say that one nurse is better than another. This forum was not developed to put down or attack fellow nurses. Most RNs are ADNs. The experience we have earned is invaluable and cannot be taught in the classroom. We can share our experience with new graduates.

When I mention that I am in school to pursue my BSN, some RNs respond, "Why?"

I have a problem with RNs who believe pursing a BSN is a waste of time. I have a problem with nurses who discourage others from pursuing a higher degree. I have a problem with nurses who feel there is no need to pursue further education. We should support one another.

You do not need a BSN to insert a Foley catheter or start an IV. You do not need a BSN to interpret hemodynamics. You do not need a BSN to obtain a blood pressure. If you choose to stop taking classes or furthering your education, that is your personal choice. However, there is so much more to nursing than patient care.

Some RNs talk about their personal accomplishments or experiences without a BSN.

What about the nursing profession and practice as a whole? What about the benefits or accomplishments that would have been missed if nurses felt that higher education was not necessary?

If you look at the nursing leaders of today, they have advanced degrees. Nursing theories and models are being developed by nurses with both experience and advanced degrees. Nurses perform medical research. Authors of nursing textbooks and journals have advanced degrees. Where do you think they learned to write journals and do research?

Nursing instructors require higher degrees. For those of us who graduated for an ADN or LVN program, were we taught by instructors with only ADN degrees? Can you imagine if our instructors were only ADN prepared? Why can't we just require future nursing instructors to have an ADN degree? Because the students, the college, the community and our nursing practice expect the instructors to meet certain standards.

Can you imagine if every nurse felt that all you need is an associate's degree? How would this affect our nursing profession?

We are trying to say that as health care professionals, education is valuable asset for the practice of nursing.

Once again, I am not saying that a BSN nurse is better than an ADN nurse or vice versa.

However, we should support our fellow collegues for pursuing an education. It doesn't even have to be a BSN degree. Just the fact that a nurse returns to school for more education should be acknowledged in a positive way.

[Darlene Jones]

To the Four Student Nurses,

Thank you very much. Very well stated in your last post. I have detected a trememdous amount of hostility from some ADN and Diploma Nurses who imply that a person is a fool for obtaining a 4-year degree for the same pay and recognition as they have. I agree,if all you plan to do is bedside nursing. I don't plan to be a bedside nurse forever and that is the reason I chose the BSN. Thanks again for adding light to this discussion....Darlene

[nurseyperson]

Here I am again!!! I do not feel personally attacked when people talk about ADNs. Why should I be? I have absolutely no problem with anyone wanting to pursue a BSN.

I would not discourage anyone from furthering their education. I simply think not EVERYONE has to return to SCHOOL FOR THEIR BSN. Especially if you wish to remain in bedside nursing. But EVERYONE should continue their EDUCATION. Do you see the difference??? Both are bettering yourselves, but in different ways. In my previous post I was showing there are alternatives to getting a BSN while still advancing you education. (certifications, etc.)

No one ever even eluded to all RNs being ADN!! Our Profession needs the BSN, MSN, PhD, etc. in nursing to do the work that they do best. My problems is the people who think ALL nurses need a BSN. No names mentioned! As I have stated in 2 earlier posts, in the United States that would no be feasible. Just that fact should be a huge consideration in this discussion.

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nurseyperson

[This message has been edited by nurseyperson (edited March 14, 2000).]

[justanurse]

Well said, sister. I choose to advance my education with those certifications and trainings that will improve my knowledge and benefit my patients. I have not stopped my education simply because I have not chosen to get a BSN degree. I think we have all stated our opinions here. Hopefully we all agree that we are ALL important in nursing today, the entire spectrum of nursing (from PCA's through Masters). We all have our role to play. It was said that all nurses should start out with their BSN - I'm not going to go back and say who said that, but I do take offense to comments like that. Comments like that put others down. I do not wish to make anyone defensive about what degree you have acquired or are seeking, and respect your choice. I also expect the same respect from all BSNs regarding my choice. The great debate would be no more if we all respected others for who they are: a nurse, regardless of degree.

[4students]

It appears that many tender spots have been revealed throughout the various postings within this issue. A number of the individuals have posted replies emphasizing the need for BSN's within this field while others have posted diametrically opposing viewpoints.

First, to elaborate on the BSN viewpoint. Nurses with advanced degrees are essential to our profession. No matter whether this fact is liked or disliked it is true. Advanced degrees are invaluable in developing credibility throughout the complete health field regardless of specialty. One example of this fact can be found within the field of the physician. Is a general MD viewed with the same regard as that of the individual who furthers his or her education through the learning of a specialty? Where would the medical field be today if the MD halted his or her formal education (not solely the learning of extra skill factors such as ACLS or ATLS) once a degree is earned? This same viewpoint needs to be used when looking at the nursing profession.

It is true that all nurses need not hold a baccalaureatte degree. If a nurse who gives bedside care has reached his or her personal plateau of professional development at that level then he or she does not need to obtain a BSN. A BSN degree does not prepare an individual to enter the nursing profession and be successful at solely this level of care. Instead, the bacalaureatte degree better prepares an individual to enter into our profession with an advanced level of expertise in various facets such as; leadership and managment as well as various advanced diagnostic skills. While it is a fact that ADN's have held leadership positions throughout the history of nursing, a number of them had to learn their skills from previous managers, mentors or "from the seat of their pants". A formal education on the essentials of leadership, such as that obtained with a BSN degree, prior to being thrown into a leadership position ensures a higher rate of success for his or her new position.

In closing, I strongly agree that we need health professionals with various levels of education throughout the entire medical field. Not everyone can or should be a doctor, not everyone can or should have a BSN, and not everyone can or should be in the health care profession. We each have our own personal and professional dreams, aspirations, goals and palteaus that we need to reach. Upon reaching each of these is when we need to re-evaluate our goals to see who we are, what we are doing, and where we are headed to truly be content with our level of success or to strive for even higher goals within our lives.

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[iluvmynavyman]

the only reason i want to get my b.s.n is to attend grad school

[VickyRN, MSN, DNP, RN]

The ADN/BSN debate has been discussed extensively here.

Please see this thread which contains links to previous discussions and articles to assist in nursing papers: ADN vs. BSN for Entry Level Nursing