BSN vs. ADN - page 4

I am a BSN and I feel that I should be paid more for my extra education. What do you think?... Read More

  1. by   Genista
    I couldn't resist a reply! :-)
    Angela- I agree w/ you on many levels. BSN RNs should not be paid more for doing the SAME job "just because" they have a BSN (the degree doesn't change the job description does it?) Good for you for going for advanced education! Your ADN program sounds wonderful. (My graduating class had a 100% pass rate on the NCLEX as well~ though, I'm not sure what the hx pass rate is). Yes,I'm a BSN RN, but I don't consider that this makes me inherently smarter or better.HA! I am smart enough to know that experience is the greatest teacher of all.There are nurses of ALL backgrounds who can teach me a thing or two (LPN, Diploma, ADN, you name it). I do have a BSN & I do not expect to be paid more for doing the same job as my Diploma or ADN peers. However, I AM appreciative of having the BSN because it has provided me a broad base of knowledge. The BSN opens up more career opportunities.With the BSN, I have more *Options*.Someday I may wish to work in a govt/Public Health position (I have a PHN Cert.), or maybe go back for the MS degree, or even (gasp) take my BSN and change careers entirely (hey, these thoughts cross your mind after a tough shift). I respect my peers for the Nurse that they are & the fruits of their labor, not just by the fancy schmancy titles after their name. Thanks for listening.
    ~kona
  2. by   NurseRachet
    Wow what a hot topic. I have done it all, LPN, ADN, BSN, and MSN. I know excellant nurses, and poor nurses at all levels. I have seen LPN's that I would rather take care of me than an BSN. Some places pay more for BSN over ADN, but they are few. One advantage of a higher degree are the opportunities, i.e, teaching, NP, clinical specialist, management, etc. It really depends on the individual and where they are in their life obtaining a degree. They use to say the BSN was going to be the entry level - and then grandfather clause all the RN's in - gee, what happened to that idea?

    I believe in merit increases based on attendance and performance - but not based on degrees. At hospital, you must have an BSN to be in any management or instructional position. Good luck with this hot topic.
  3. by   Palpitations
    Not only was it about ADNs or BSNs it was about pay, skills, and education. Obviously, there are LPNs that have more skills than ADNs and BSNs; but, you didn't think that their (LPNs) scope of practice was as broad as yours, so that's why you said that they shouldn't be paid as much as you. Right? If you're going to use that argument about skill levels, you need to be consistent. You say that the degree doesn't matter as long as you're doing the same things. So, why the heck should we go to college? Remember, this is the plan that HMOs are trying to get across, patient care techs and such can do the RNs job. Using your argument, they would be right. The degree doesn't matter.

    I just wanted to add this article for the sake of argument. I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing.
    http://www.speakeasy.org/wfp/16/Nursing.html


    Originally posted by ltm:
    hi palpitations. obviously there are advanced practice nurses that have a greater scope of practice than that of a person with only a RN license, but last i checked this discussion was about RNs with either a adn or bsn and compensation. i still know that they do the same job and that is why they should be paid the same. At my BSN college we have a nclex pass rate of 97% and everyone from my class successfully passed the nclex, which is the same for the adn college in the area. i don't think one is better than the other and someone must think that they are the same since a graduate of either program can sit for the same licensing exam.

    [This message has been edited by ltm (edited June 11, 2000).]

    [This message has been edited by ltm (edited June 11, 2000).]


    [This message has been edited by Palpitations (edited June 12, 2000).]
  4. by   JillR
    Angela,

    I always have to chuckle to myself when I read these posts. In WI the ADN's have a higher pass rate across the board than the BSN's do. Also in my last semester we were required to take a NLN pharmacology test, I scored higher than 90% of all BSN students that took the same test but only 88% of ADN's. Now I think that things like this are a good argument for the ADN nurses.

    Regarding pay rates, I feel that as staff nurses, if the BSN has the same resposibilty than the ADN nurse, the pay should be the same for the same job. thanks.
  5. by   AHarri66
    Originally posted by Palpitations:
    Not only was it about ADNs or BSNs it was about pay, skills, and education. Obviously, there are LPNs that have more skills than ADNs and BSNs; but, you didn't think that their (LPNs) scope of practice was as broad as yours, so that's why you said that they shouldn't be paid as much as you. Right? If you're going to use that argument about skill levels, you need to be consistent. You say that the degree doesn't matter as long as you're doing the same things. So, why the heck should we go to college? Remember, this is the plan that HMOs are trying to get across, patient care techs and such can do the RNs job. Using your argument, they would be right. The degree doesn't matter.

    I just wanted to add this article for the sake of argument. I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing.
    http://www.speakeasy.org/wfp/16/Nursing.html
    Palpitations:

    Thanks for posting the article. It made for interesting reading. However, it didn't say that PCAs/CNAs can do RNs jobs...it said "Lower paid unlicensed 'assistive personnel' cannot handle IV's, dispense medicine, or make formal assessments. Their typical work consists of bathing patients, changing sheets and taking vital signs." This is what unlicensed personnel do in all facilities that I am aware of, as well as feeding, toileting, and transporting patients. I don't find that a threat to my job. As far as I am concerned, having PCAs/CNAs to do those tasks frees me up to handle the more complicated and skilled procedures involved in caring for my patients.
    I am being consistent regarding scope of practice and skill level for practicing nurses! I'm not saying that LPNs aren't skilled or knowledgable, I'm saying there are procedures they legally are not allowed to do, and in most cases they are under the supervision of RNs. That is where the difference in pay lies. A degree/diploma does matter in the case of RNs, it allows them a broader scope of practice and a broader knowledge base. As of now, however, which degree doesn't matter because the licensing is the same, as are the responsibilities. A PCA/CNA has no formal education other than a four to six week training course, and definitely doesn't have the same scope of practice or knowledge base, thus they are paid far less.
    We as nurses are in a unique position as far as our education and licensing are concerned--there are various routes to practice. If at some point the decision is made by the powers that be to differentiate among Diplomas, ADNs, and BSNs, then there will be a valid argument for difference in compensation. Until that time, equal work gets equal pay.

    Regards,
    Angela

    [This message has been edited by AHarri66 (edited June 12, 2000).]

    [This message has been edited by AHarri66 (edited June 12, 2000).]
  6. by   ltm
    thanks for you post angela. i agree with it 100%. it was all that i have been saying since my first post. different scopes of practice get different pay, while people with the same scope of practice get the same pay. i truly don't have time to argue for the sake of arguing, because of course i feel that there are more important things in the world, like patient care and getting nurses united to make a difference where it counts.

    ltm
  7. by   Palpitations
    You don't have time to argue, but you feel compelled to keep replying, so you do have time to argue. Yeah, I will agree with you that different scopes of practice do get different pay and that's my point (see above reply). You seem to feel that ADNs and BSNs are no different in their scopes of practice, but that is not true for all areas, which was, also, my point (see above reply). It is mostly true for bedside and floor nurses; they (ADNs and BSNs) will, probably, get the same pay for the same duties. It will be harder for an ADN to get jobs in military, community health, and management.

    Nurses will not unite if they're not in agreement. So, you're going to have to come up with some better ideas for getting that to happen. They're not going to go for that "I care for my patients more than you do" stuff.


    Originally posted by ltm:
    thanks for you post angela. i agree with it 100%. it was all that i have been saying since my first post. different scopes of practice get different pay, while people with the same scope of practice get the same pay. i truly don't have time to argue for the sake of arguing, because of course i feel that there are more important things in the world, like patient care and getting nurses united to make a difference where it counts.

    ltm
  8. by   goldilocksrn
    I didn't go into a BSN program because I wanted more money. I did it to expand my mind. I think the more open your mind, the better person you are. I think paying people with more formal education more is a way of saying that their efforts to learn are recognized. It is sad that fellows nurses aren't willing to recognize a fellow RN's hard work. The public is going to continue to view us as task doers as long as we continue to view ourselves as task doers. Here we are arguing over who does what tasks and its not fair that a BSN makes more; if it makes you that upset, go get your BSN too. It will motivate others to pursue further learning.
  9. by   ltm
    Amen GoldilocksRN. i see your point also. i got my bsn, so that i would be able to go get my master's in midwifery. i truly care about my patients holisticly and that is why i am an RN. so to each their own until there is one route to becoming an RN, if that ever happens.
  10. by   RN'91
    Originally posted by NurseMom:
    I work with a Diploma Nurse (25 years experience) who is far more compassionate and skilled than many nurses I know with a BSN after their name. I also don't think that extra chemistry, calculus, or English courses make you a better nurse either. I also work with some LPN's who are AWESOME!!! I guess it's not so much the initials after your name, but the experience and compassion you bring to your patients.
    Always remember....no matter how good we think we are, that auto mechanics, electricians, and oil-burner repairmen make more money an hour than we EVER will!

    I agree with you totally! I graduated from a three year diploma program. Experience and compation are most important. As a preceptor for my unit, i have oriented 90% of our staff. Most are BSN prepared. I do my best to help the new nurses gain experience and achieve thier goals on the unit. My manager tells me I'm a great role model. " No BSN required"


    ------------------
    RN'91
  11. by   RNC
    Originally posted by goldilocksrn:
    I am a BSN and I feel that I should be paid more for my extra education. What do you think?
    THE ISSUE IS THAT INSTEAD OF FIGHTING ABOUT WHO SHOULD GET PAID MORE WE SHOULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS SHORTAGE AND DEMAND THE SOLUTION IS THAT WE ALL GET PAID MORE. OTHERWISE, WE ARGUE WITH EACH OTHER OVER NOTHING. IN FIRE SERVICE, WHERE AFTER THREE YEARS AN AVERAGE HIGH SCHOOL GRAD MAKES
    $50,000, THERE ARE PLENTY OF FIREFIGHTERS WHO HAVE AN AS OR BS DEGREES, BUT YOU DO NOT HEAR THEM AGRUEING ABOUT WHO SHOULD GET PAID MORE. THEY ALL GET PAID MORE!!!
    SO WE NEED TO SHUT UP AND SUPPORT MO' MONEY FOR US ALL!!!

  12. by   MaineNurse67
    This topic drives me insane. I have worked with so many nurses and to me, the best nurse is the nurse with the most experience in the most areas. I have worked with BSN nurses with not a lick of practical experience and I have worked with LPNs who have tons of experience. I think each nurse should be looked at by their experience and not their initials!! I have worked as a CNA, then as an LPN for many years, am now an ADN. My experiences have lead me to a job as Director of Nurses and I am currently Acting Administrator at a LTC/skilled rehab unit. Just another example of initials meaning nothing...and experience being the key!
  13. by   Palpitations
    Are you saying that all ADNs are more experienced than all BSNs? Even if they graduated the same day and started work at the same time? Do you think that the ADN programs or better than the BSN programs? What are your statistics on this? Which nurses make more mistakes and stuff like that there? And which nurses have more compassion? The proof is in the pudding. Lay it out there.

    Originally posted by nanjam:
    If I'm working side by side with a BSN versus ADN what matters truly most is my level of experience. Some BSN grads believe that they are delivering a higher quality of care but that is not necessarily so. As a patient I would rather have an experienced ADN over a less experienced BSN any day! Experience being the operative word. Degrees are quite necessary for advancement and expanding your career choices. Certifications, I believe, should be compensated for their expertise. That is where a nurse's value is better measured, in my opinion.

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