BSN minimum requirement - page 6

It is my firm belief that the minimum requirement for nursing should be a BSN. We want to be accepted as a profession, yet we allow 2 year programs to dominate the field. Now I went to a 2 year... Read More

  1. by   emtrn2k1
    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE READ THIS POST__IT IS LONG BUT WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!

    Let's hit on this issue--Docs go to what 8 years of school, and then internship and all that hoopla--how about this . . . Doc prescribes x med for y pt. Z nurse notes that x med is contraindicated and calls d. dr. who then gives another med, or asks z nurse what she thinks--depending on if you are in a teaching hospital or not. Now ask a NP to prescribe a med, I'll bet you run into much less occurance of this happening, because generally NPs have practiced, and worked in nursing field and are more conscientious. Further, lets look at PA's. They go to school for 1/2 the time as a doc, but make twice the money as an RN--what is wrong with this picture. Our profession is falling to pieces because we let it. My original post said that we would be cutting our noses off to spite our faces--that is so true, right now we can't afford to make BSN the minimum requirement. I got my AD so I could support my family while I improve my own education. Period. I have every desire to obtain my BSN, MSN and whatever I might want to pursue after that. I am a member of multiple organizations, and plan to become certified in multiple related specialties. I am excited!!!!! We should encourage every one to want to be. First lets encourage mandatory education credits nationwide, or worldwide-- lets start by pulling ourselves up and trudging on faster and harder than any other profession has done before. Let us not only demand higher wages, but show the intelligence and quality that prove we are professionals. Let's stop eating our young, and stabbing each other in the back. Nurses unfortunately have an insatiable need to degrade one another--not all - generalization there. If you give personality testing to nurses across the board, there will be variations, but a general concensus emerges that is caring, supportive, people sometimes needy and co-dependent, sometimes independent. There is a commonality among us that we want to help. PERIOD. Let's help each other, ourselves, and the profession. FIRST LET'S BE PROFESSIONAL!!!!! Maybe now is not the time to make entry level BSN--there is too much demand. But we can start by making education mandatory. We can start by emailing, writing, calling (whatever)our legislators and having our voice heard. We can join together, unite and begin to revamp this profession that was once an unacceptable choice for a woman of knowledge--anybody who has read the history of Florence Nightingale will find this-- Is this what we want others to see of us--fortunately this is a nurses website, but anybody can read. How many of you tell your kids to STOP FIGHTING. . .well, my point exactly. Can't we just all get along--I know that is colloquial--but isn't it true. To Ms. Burns AMEN to you for wanting to improve the profession. Let's go for it!!!!!
    Originally posted by fergus51:
    Is anyone else getting depressed about how we talk to eachother? I think the way the insults are flying on this board goes to show you that NOTHING will be able to unite all nurses. If we ALL had BSNs I am sure we would argue about which program prepared us more.

    I do believe a nurse is a nurse because we all get the basic knowledge and specialization occurs after graduation anyways. And as for the number of years doctors go to school: find out what they studied too. A person can go to med school here after studying three years of anything along with about 4 or 5 prereqs. I know a doctor who took journalism so he only studied medicine for 3 years. But I NEVER hear other doctors putting him down. Infighting seems to be a nursing specialty nowadays and it's one area that sure doesn't require an advanced degree.

    I got my BSN, but I don't think that makes me super nurse and I don't think it makes me a snobby ***** either. It was what was right for me and that's all that mattered.
  2. by   emtrn2k1
    SHAME On you sheripa -- we understood what you originally said--giving a reply just allows him to get to you--everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and no one can degrade you if you don't give them your permission--this just gave the permission.

    Originally posted by sheripa:
    That was me who stated that and I stand behind it because that is a daily task for any nurse who cares about her pts. As for your remark take your license and wipe you "butt" with it then lick it with your fat a** tongue stank ho*. And you wonder why we are not considered as professionals right.
  3. by   ShannonB25
    emtrn2k1, I completely agree. sharipa, I for one would appreciate it if you would express yourself in a more professional manner. This board often has people who disagree, but I think that resorting to name calling is ridiculous and rude. I am glad to see that I am not the only one who feels this way.

    ------------------
    "The highest reward for man's toil is not what he gets for it, but what he becomes by it."-Johan Ruskin
  4. by   Doey
    Nicely stated bigjay
  5. by   MARTRN
    Originally posted by Lburns:
    If we are going to be frank the board was an absolute waste of time. They were simple, basic questions anybody could answer and no where near a test of what makes a good nurse. The posting was not about the boards, it is about the professionalism of nursing in the year 2001. The boards are nothing more than a measure of how well you can study the NCLEX notebooks.

  6. by   MARTRN
    Originally posted by Lburns:
    If we are going to be frank the board was an absolute waste of time. They were simple, basic questions anybody could answer and no where near a test of what makes a good nurse. The posting was not about the boards, it is about the professionalism of nursing in the year 2001. The boards are nothing more than a measure of how well you can study the NCLEX notebooks.

    HOW COULD YOU NOT HAVE MORE RESPECT FOR THE STATE BOARD THAN THAT? I WOULD LIKE TO SEE YOU IN A ROOM WITH ALL THE PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T PASSED THE BOARD EXAM AND BRAG ABOUT HOW EASY IT WAS. I NEVER SAID THAT THE STATE BOARD IS WHAT MAKES A GOOD NURSE, SO DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. YOUR RIGHT, THEY SHOULDN'T EVEN HAVE A STATE BOARD EXAM, THEY SHOULD JUST LET ANYONE BE A NURSE, GET REAL. OH YEAH, AND I LOVE THE ONE ABOUT HOW ANYONE COULD ANSWER THOSE BASIC QUESTIONS, LIKE THE TRASH MAN, SACKER, OR EVEN MY DOG. YOUR HEAD IS OBVIOUSLY SWOLLEN. THE STATE BOARD EXAM IS MORE THAN HOW WELL YOU CAN STUDY THE NCLEX BOOK, BUT SINCE YOU WERE BORN A NURSE, I WOULDN'T EXPECT YOU TO UNDERSTAND.
  7. by   Cathy RN
    OK I'm an RN 25 years this year. My Mom was an RN we graduated from the same school of Nursing. I love Nursing. I'm a Nursing advocate. I'm very involved in my Career. I consider myself a Professional. But over the years this topic has caused me great distress. I am happy being a bedside Nurse I work in a busy Emergency Department, I am always researching, learning, preceptoring and teaching. The fact I do not have my degree bothers me only inthat I hate being made feel that I am not as good, not as rounded, not worldly as someone feels I should be. If BScN becomes the entrance level for Nursing fine I can accept that. You have your degree great, I'm happy for you. But come on, when we do the same job, we are the same right? If you want to go into management that is your right and you will probably get that over me...but thats ok. I just want to Nurse, do a really good job and come home to my family. I think we need to look at ourselves and see what we are doing to each other and value RN, BScN, MSN etc This has got to stop.
  8. by   opie
    Maybe this argument will be resolved in the next thirty years. About fifty-five years ago, doctors were having the same arguments. When someone graduated from medical school, they were considered a doctor. Some doctors started going into hospitals and did an intersnship for a year or less and they were laughed at by the general practioners. Then if you can beleive it, some decided to do a three year residency. Now, besides an intership and residency, doctors are doing fellowships. The arguments were the same back then as they are now. As our society becomes more technologically advanced and the stream of information and knowledge grows by leaps and bounds, it becomes impossible to learn even the basics in two years.
    The best nurses are good, not becasue of their degree, but because they are motivated and committed. However, I have no intention of seeing a physician who has not done a residency, nor one who is not board certified. Does it mean that if they are certified then they are an excellent physician? No, but it's all we have by which to judge their skills. We have to raise the entry level of nursing to gain the respect and autonomy nursing deserves.
  9. by   susanmary
    I do not feel that a BSN should be the minimum requirement to enter nursing. After completing nursing school and passing NCLEX, nurses should be able to provide adequate patient care. I believe that what really counts is what happens after nurses pass their boards. For example, can they apply their nursing theory into practice? How adept are their critical thinking skills? How are their assessment skills? Although theory/clinical in ADN, Diploma, and BSN programs is adequate for entry-level nursing -- it is up to the individual to act as a professional and keep learning. I graduated from a community-college ADN program at the top of my class, but felt there was something "missing." Two years later, completed a BS in Business/Health Studies. Just earned my BSN in December -- I did it for ME. I know my BSN will give me options regarding employment -- there are many bedside and nonbedside positions which require a BSN. The real benefit I received from earning my BSN was the friendship and support I had from my classmates -- didn't matter what degrees/positions we had --everyone in that class was wonderful. My professors stated that they had never seen anything like it. Did earning my BSN make me a better nurse? My honest answer is that I learned a great deal which I have been able to incorporate into my practice. I'm very proud that I earned my BSN -- it means a great deal to me. My name tag remains *******, RN. I did not choose to have BSN added. What my patients need to know is that I'm a caring, competent, registered nurse. We are all registered nurses, aren't we? One more thing, please stop the name calling -- it's getting in the way of the posts. This post has to do with nursing, education, and professionalism -- how professional is it to offensibly attack one another?

    Be kind.
    Sue

    [This message has been edited by susanmary (edited March 08, 2001).]
  10. by   sonnie
    Let's not stop with the BSN as the entry let's make the MSN the entry level so we can really call our selves "professionals". As you all know MD's have a BS in something but have post grad training and that must be what makes the difference!!!!
  11. by   Lburns
    Originally posted by MARTRN:
    HOW COULD YOU NOT HAVE MORE RESPECT FOR THE STATE BOARD THAN THAT? I WOULD LIKE TO SEE YOU IN A ROOM WITH ALL THE PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T PASSED THE BOARD EXAM AND BRAG ABOUT HOW EASY IT WAS. I NEVER SAID THAT THE STATE BOARD IS WHAT MAKES A GOOD NURSE, SO DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. YOUR RIGHT, THEY SHOULDN'T EVEN HAVE A STATE BOARD EXAM, THEY SHOULD JUST LET ANYONE BE A NURSE, GET REAL. OH YEAH, AND I LOVE THE ONE ABOUT HOW ANYONE COULD ANSWER THOSE BASIC QUESTIONS, LIKE THE TRASH MAN, SACKER, OR EVEN MY DOG. YOUR HEAD IS OBVIOUSLY SWOLLEN. THE STATE BOARD EXAM IS MORE THAN HOW WELL YOU CAN STUDY THE NCLEX BOOK, BUT SINCE YOU WERE BORN A NURSE, I WOULDN'T EXPECT YOU TO UNDERSTAND.
    I understand some people have difficulty taking tests, period, but I bet those same people taking the nclex and failing it would pass the clinical aspects taught during nursing school. That is my point in my posting! A 75 question test does very little to show who is going to be a good nurse or not. I know many people who took the review courses and many who bought the books, all passed. The test is not a very good determinant of nursing skills, critical thinking or leadership, all of which are required to be an entry level nurse. Let's determine a more practical test that really reflects nursing, not one that pulls obscure questions from a computer data system.

  12. by   RNPD
    originally posted by sheripa...."I asked my uncle about this and he said I don't know why they are like that because me personally as a Dr. I could care less how much education they have as long as they "FOLLOW MY ORDERS CORRECTLY"...."

    This statement made by an MD really saddens me. If an MD who works with nurses daily thinks that all an RN is good for is to "follow orders correctly", then what hope is there of educating the general public as to what we really do? First of all, w/o the proper education we are incapable of following orders correctly. As RNs we must think about the appropriateness of the order before we follow it, and then find the best way to carry it out for the individual patient. The MD would also be in a real jam if we were unable to assess the patient and let the doc know when an intervention is needed. To do this we must develop a plan of care and have an understanding of what the correct response or outcome SHOULD be-or we won't know if the patient is responding to the prescribed tx. We also treat the patient as a whole person, including the family-something that most docs forget to do-especially in this age of specializtion.

    Now, as an ADN, I feel i do all this very well. I am an extremely competent nurse. I received the basis of my education in school and the bulk of my knowledge on the job. However, i still believe that a BSN should be the minimum requrement for licensure. I believe that a college education makes for a more knowledgable, well rounded person and also is the basis for any professional degree. I am sorry that i did not have the means to obtain a BSN at the time I went to school. I don't know that it would change my own individual practice at this time, but I believe it would certainly open more doors to me should I decide at this late date to change or advance my career. And certainly, knowledge gained is never wasted.

    As a closing comment, I do wish that we could all ACT as professionals, no matter what the degree. Some of the posts on this BB have been the absolute antithesis of professional and these people are truly a disgrace as human beings.

    [This message has been edited by RNPD (edited March 09, 2001).]
  13. by   egmillard
    It appears that you think you are a professional, just because you have a degree. I have met many nurses with diplomas and 2 year degree, who are far better than those with 4 year degrees. I have met incredibly bad nurses with masters degrees. Your education does not define what kind of nurse you are, or how good you are at your job, it simply allows you to gain quicker promotions.

    [This message has been edited by egmillard (edited March 09, 2001).]

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