artificial feeding-Terri Schiavo - page 47
I posted this here becaue I think this subject is something that we as nurses deal with on a regular basis.....Many many people state that they have a big problem with the feeding being stopped... Read More
Mar 26, '05Quote from deanpicuThis would certainly be true if it were verifiable that this was indeed her wish. Unfortunately, that has yet to be proven the case. And therein lies the dilemma.Maybe we should turn this around and say her rights and wishes were violated when they put the tube in in the first place.
Mar 26, '05It's really a sad situation all the way around. But I do believe her husband has the legal right to make this decision. I know some people don't like him and question his motives but he is her legal next of kin. The reason this is getting all this attention is that her parents are holding press conferences and pushing it into the spotlight. I question their motives. I don't know what it is like to lose a child but letting my mother and father was the hardest thing I ever had to do. Yes, we could have coded my mother and kept her alive but she would not have been living just alive. We could have kept the O2 going through my dad's ETT but I know he did want to live that way. Had any one of my family dissented, we would have hashed it out and worked it out. If not, I would still have made the same decision for my parents not for me or any one else. I do have a problem though with the reports that "nurses are reporting ...", what happened to confidentially? As far as hearing her husband say mean things and such...who hasn't said a mean or ugly thing to those we love when we are tired and stressed? Also, about his other woman and kids, he's been with her for 7 years. Terri's been disabled for over 15. Maybe he waited for 7 years, maybe he didn't, those " without sin...". Last thing, I promise, please let's not go to a place where the government can interfere in such a personal matter unless there is evidence of legal wrong doing.
Mar 26, '05Ya but even the original court documents state that Mary Shindler testified that she was present when Terri uttered those words with the rest of the Shiavo's, the question since has not been whether she said that or not, but how much importance that statement has when parents want something other than those wishes.
Quote from jnetteThis would certainly be true if it were verifiable that this was indeed her wish. Unfortunately, that has yet to be proven the case. And therein lies the dilemma.
Mar 26, '05Again I know very few nurses that would put their license on the line and say such. If it was true their would be several that would come together i ncluding doctors ect. This is another ploy from the parents to go to any extreme to discredit their son in law. And all they are doing is taking away their daughters dignity and her privacy. The courts have seen all testimony and have left the decision to the husband. So the few who come forth are last ditch efforts to try and help the parents win..
Mar 26, '05Quote from deanpicuYa but even the original court documents state that Mary Shindler testified that she was present when Terri uttered those words with the rest of the Shiavo's, the question since has not been whether she said that or not, but how much importance that statement has when parents want something other than those wishes.
Okay, then I concede. I was not aware that she had actually verbalized any wishes to that effect.. verbally or in writing. All I had heard was the husband's declaration that they had "discussed" these matters a time or two in the past, (prior to her incident) but nothing more specific or relating to her situation after the incident.
If she did in fact make it clear that this was her wish, then it should be honored... and the tube should NEVER have been placed to begin with.
Mar 26, '05Seems horribly sad that the parents can't except their dgt's wishes, she has been without food and water now over a week. Its just a total mess.
Mar 26, '05Have to agree with Asher on the last statement. I absolutely do not want the government deciding on my medical care. Suppose you were diagnosed with ______ (fill in blank with terminal condition of your choice). After all the consults and medical advice, you decide to forego any treatment and let nature take its course. But good old Uncle Sam steps in and decides that you will go through every treatment, surgery, etc prescribed by a doctor. I'm not saying I agree with the husband or that he is without fault, but he is her next of kin. My wife and I have discussed this and similar circumstances. She knows what I would or would not want and I know what her wishes are. Even though we have not drafted a living will or advanced directives, we do know what we want. I hope the Shiavo case causes more people to discuss their wishes with their family-not just their spouse-and draft libving will/advanced directives.
Mar 26, '05About the 2 CNAs and the RN who gave the affidavits, it just dawn on me that means there are foul play involve regardless whether the affidavits are true or not.
If they are true, then the husband is highly highly suspect and maybe an in depth investigation into the husband is in order as foul play is suspected. If the affidavits are false, then there are also foul play involve, this time on the people who gave the affidavits. I mean, if it is false, isn't that slander at the least. That kind of affidavits could potentially get an innocient person in jail.
I suppose there is a third alternatives, there are some major miscommuncations between the husband and the people who gave the affidavits.
Mar 26, '05This is getting confusing with everyone having their own sources of information. Can we give our source of information so that those of us who can't sleep can check them out personally and decide the quality of the sources ourselves?
I'll start. My major sources are (I try to list only sources as close to the "horse's mouth" as possible)
Parents' web site. Give their point of view. Good site to understand how the parents feel and what they believe.
The Wolfson's report commision by Gov Bush. This is probably the most neutral document (and it even has some compassion for both sides) I personal could find. Also give very good history as to what happened. About 40 pages but worth reading every single page including the small footnotes.
University miami. Has links to both sides. A neutral site as far as I can tell and I feel it is reputable.
Terri brain's CAT scan (an old one)
Detail timeline (timeline is also in the Wolfson's report)
I don't know of any web site by the husband.
ps. I wonder what the silent parties are thinking (beside Terry)? Parties like the current hospice nurses, doctors, social workers, and other hospital staff. Parties like the husband's girlfriend and their kids.
Mar 26, '05....I hope you all get those Advance Directives written-talk with your friends and families..As I said earlier-death is the last trip we take and we should make sure our loved ones have our intinerary. ...I am in awe of this thread and impressed that it has remained civil for this long.... My thoughts and prayers go out to all------not just the 2 families that are front and center in this debate but everyone that is struggling with the loss of a loved one....I hope this case does to bring a continued awareness to the importance of Living wills and and a more openess with death and end of life issues..Much of our society has hidden,denied or attempted to pretty it up for too long.It is a natural part of life.What is becoming un-natural is our ability to sustain the body...Should we do so just because we can? What happens when the healthcare system collapses from the strain? We have to face that there are going to HAVE to be limits set eventually-Our resources ARE finite.........That's it for me tonite.................................A final note----Peace and love to all......
Mar 26, '05Quote from steelcityrnGosh, all the ambivalent feelings, especially with this case being so ambiguous and so many questions unanswered. It took 15 yrs to come to this decision? IF she is in a pvs, then i don't feel as badly, as she would be totally unaware of what is happening. It it's not a pvs and she's aware of her environment, then words cannot express my grief for her.Seems horribly sad that the parents can't except their dgt's wishes, she has been without food and water now over a week. Its just a total mess.
Yet I can assure you that with hospice involved, Terri is not suffering as I am confident she is receiving the appropriate meds to keep her comfortable; combined with the nurses who are giving keeping her comfortable to the best of their ability.
Yet i just can't help but think there's an element of impropriety in this case. Too many secrets.
Mar 26, '05Dan, most of the information I've been getting is from the reports in the newspaper here where Terri lives. St. Pete Times. www.sptimes.com
Lately however, I've not been reading much, but nothing new has come to light.
Mar 26, '05It sounds as though her parents are done filing appeals now. I can't help but think this is a good thing, as Terri will be dying and this way all the energies can be focused on the time she has left.