Artificial feeding-Terri Schiavo

[ktwlpn]

I posted this here becaue I think this subject is something that we as nurses deal with on a regular basis.....Many many people state that they have a big problem with the feeding being stopped "allowing her to starve to death" The Vatican says " To starve her to death is pitiless" Most everyone agrees that it is one's right to refuse to initiate artificial feeding but somehow this situation "is different" How? The patient "starves to death " in both cases-so why has this one galvanized the WORLD? My husband read me a quote from the Bible -forgive me because I can't remember it in detail-it was something along the lines that a woman marries and leaves her father's house and her husband becomes her family....My husband is my POA I hope no-one in my family questions his motives -He KNOWS exactly what I want....I can't question her husbands motives-I know that some suspect foul play and state the results of a bone scan support this...That bone scan was obtained 53 months after she went into her coma-after her body suffered the effects of her eating disorders for a number of years.... Her present level of responsiveness does not pertain to this matter IMHO-she CAN'T eat naturally--she did not ever want to "be kept alive like that " and she can't state otherwise at this point...So- #1 can someone PLEASE make me see why this case is" DIFFERENT" and #2 How do YOU support your patients and their loved ones when they are agonizing over this decision? ONe thing I always ask is "Did your loved one ever give you any idea of what they would want if something like this happened" and if they did then I advocate that stance for that pt as much possible.......I believe that death is the last great trip we'll go on and we should PLAN it as much as possible.The greatest GIFT we can give to our loved ones is an itinerary...........

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

is it true that when a person is dying of dehydration, he or she can not feel the hunger or thirst but patient becomes unconscious and die peacefully?

everyone stops eating and drinking in the process of dying. it's what humans do, stop eating and drinking before they die. but no one has come back to tell us how it went.

edited. sorry this is repetative of what others above have said. i'm not reading the whole thread before responding. :)

[mysticalwaters1]

According to Florida's Department of State, Pinellas County Circuit Court Judge George W. Greer received a contribution of $250 for his 2004 re-election campaign from Felos & Felos, the law firm of George Felos.

Hmm... so what? Isn't their a limit and I'm sorry but $250 doesn't seem a lot. Seems like a last ditch effort to stop something already ordered.

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

Everyone stops eating and drinking in the process of dying. But no one has come back to tell us how it went.

That is the difference though in this case. Terri wasn't dying. So we can't expect the same process as a person actively dying.

She is dying now though.

steph

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

Amazing how people who don't even know these people can have 180 degree differences of opinion. Because I disagree with you 180 degrees.

I think her parents and siblings are among the most loving people I've ever seen interviewed. But then, I don't know them, never met them. Nor have I met Michael Schiavo.

Interesting . . .

steph

Interesting. They don't come across to me as abusive, nor the most loving people I've ever seen interviewed. They without a doubt love their daughter. Their main goal of course is to gather public sympathy to save their daughter. But it seems a bit scripted to me, not ncessarily insincere, but definately not the most loving people I've ever seen.

I do think that if the parents were put under the microscope as her husband has, they wouldn't come up squeaky clean. But then who would? Even during the four hour tape where dad was trying to get a response for the camera, he lost patience with her "come on Terri, do something here, I'm not fooling around". Makes you wonder how he treated her at home without cameras rolling.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

That is the difference though in this case. Terri wasn't dying. So we can't expect the same process as a person actively dying.

She is dying now though.

steph

I know that she was starved, but just addressing the issue that at the end is she feeling thirst or hunger, and we don't know. But it would be resonable to say if she has those sensations, that at first she did. I hope she's not uncomfortable now.

[mysticalwaters1]

That is the difference though in this case. Terri wasn't dying. So we can't expect the same process as a person actively dying.

She is dying now though.

steph

The idea is that she brain damaged enough not to fully comprehend it. The videos were band because they are supposedly misleading. I don't understand if several doctors deems she's in the vegatative state and then the opposite side have only examined her for 1 hour and not been invovled with the case or not substantial backgrounds. One doctor ruling against her diagnosis was reported for falsifying dx about some neurological condition for personal gain. Anyway people refuse tube feedings all the time and if the person can't speak for themselves the loved one makes it. Generally it seems the spouses have made decesions.

And as far as people not able to tell us about dying please that's true but my interpretation when refusing water and food it's to give them peace. The only time i've see people that seem like they're suffering when they die and there are probably others but from my experience is cancer and respitory distress and those usually get some narcotic drip or other pain relievers that make it much easier than nothing.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

James, I don't think taking custory of Terri is seriously in Mr. Bush's power right now.

Interesting about the judge. However, 29 other judges have reviewed this case and come up with the same conclusion...that it was Terri's desire not to live her life in this fashion, and she would not want to be tube fed. Can we be 100% sure, is there "proof". No. Is it flawed. Probably.

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

Interesting. They don't come across to me as abusive, nor the most loving people I've ever seen interviewed. They without a doubt love their daughter. Their main goal of course is to gather public sympathy to save their daughter. But it seems a bit scripted to me, not ncessarily insincere, but definately not the most loving people I've ever seen.

I do think that if the parents were put under the microscope as her husband has, they wouldn't come up squeaky clean. But then who would? Even during the four hour tape where dad was trying to get a response for the camera, he lost patience with her "come on Terri, do something here, I'm not fooling around". Makes you wonder how he treated her at home without cameras rolling.

I didn't say "most loving" . . .just "among the most loving". :) Let's just say they love her - and I don't think are using her for any pro-life scheme.

Hey, if you followed me around with a video camera you'd most likely see me get irritated with my kids. You should have seen me the other night when my daughter told me she forgot to turn in her homework which was worth 80 points and may mean she fails her math class and might get bumped off the softball team. :angryfire And no one is even trying to kill my daughter.

I imagine the stress of all this, on both sides, generates moments of irritation and anger.

I hope she isn't uncomfortable either.

It can't be long now . . . .

steph

[mysticalwaters1]

.

I do think that if the parents were put under the microscope as her husband has, they wouldn't come up squeaky clean. But then who would? Even during the four hour tape where dad was trying to get a response for the camera, he lost patience with her "come on Terri, do something here, I'm not fooling around". Makes you wonder how he treated her at home without cameras rolling.

I agree too. It's a huge mess and we can't decipher what exactly is going on 100%.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

I didn't say "most loving" . . .just "among the most loving". :) Let's just say they love her - and I don't think are using her for any pro-life scheme.

Hey, if you followed me around with a video camera you'd most likely see me get irritated with my kids. You should have seen me the other night when my daughter told me she forgot to turn in her homework which was worth 80 points and may mean she fails her math class and might get bumped off the softball team. :angryfire And no one is even trying to kill my daughter.

I imagine the stress of all this, on both sides, generates moments of irritation and anger.

I hope she isn't uncomfortable either.

It can't be long now . . . .

steph

I know you're sad, so I won't nitpick. I did mean to quote you and say they aren't coming across as the "among the most loving", but that's probably because here where they live I've seen them over and over again and am a bit weary of all the press.

True, irritation with a child does not mean like of love. Given her anorexia, I'm not ready to give them "parents of the year" award either.

I absolutely don't believe for one second they are on a "right to life agenda". Their agenda is purely to save her life. Their unbending faith in the quality of her life, I think is partly motivated by their hatred of her husband, in addition to their love for her.

Off toppic. Does anyoen know who the right life leader was who said "If she dies there will be hell to pay".

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

The idea is that she brain damaged enough not to fully comprehend it. The videos were band because they are supposedly misleading. I don't understand if several doctors deems she's in the vegatative state and then the opposite side have only examined her for 1 hour and not been invovled with the case or not substantial backgrounds. One doctor ruling against her diagnosis was reported for falsifying dx about some neurological condition for personal gain. Anyway people refuse tube feedings all the time and if the person can't speak for themselves the loved one makes it. Generally it seems the spouses have made decesions.

And as far as people not able to tell us about dying please that's true but my interpretation when refusing water and food it's to give them peace. The only time i've see people that seem like they're suffering when they die and there are probably others but from my experience is cancer and respitory distress and those usually get some narcotic drip or other pain relievers that make it much easier than nothing.

To me it doesn't matter if she is brain damaged enough to not know she is being starved/dehydrated. Or that she may be euphoric (although if she can't feel hunger and thirst, how can she feel euphoria?).

I don't believe in pulling a feeding tube from a relatively healthy brain damaged human being. I think comparing hospice patients and Terri is disingenuous.

There are many people with less than perfect lives . . to me this starts us on the downward slide towards looking at someone's elses "quality" of life and making decisions about whether they are worth keeping alive. Next may be kids with Down's Syndrome. Or quads like Christopher Reeve (who obviously has gone on to heaven). Or elderly people in poor health who are a burden on their kids or feel they are a burden on their kids. Where does it stop?

And I never heard about the videos being banned.

steph

[Spidey's mom, ADN, BSN, RN]

I know you're sad, so I won't nitpick. I did mean to quote you and say they aren't coming across as the "among the most loving", but that's probably because here where they live I've seen them over and over again and am a bit weary of all the press.

True, irritation with a child does not mean like of love. Given her anorexia, I'm not ready to give them "parents of the year" award either.

I absolutely don't believe for one second they are on a "right to life agenda". Their agenda is purely to save her life. Their unbending faith in the quality of her life, I think is partly motivated by their hatred of her husband, in addition to their love for her.

Off toppic. Does anyoen know who the right life leader was who said "If she dies there will be hell to pay".

I'm gonna guess and say Randall Terry.

steph