Are anti-vaccine people conspiracy theorists generally? - page 21

I have an old friend from years ago who I now keep in touch with on Facebook. Her posts are fascinating in the amazing variety of conspiracy theories, some outrageous, some maybe partially true.... Read More

  1. by   Horseshoe
    Quote from BCgradnurse
    If you feel your freedom is being violated, then how about the freedom and safety of those who are vulnerable and compromised?
    It should be abundantly clear by now that anti-vaxxers do not care about the vulnerable and compromised people in society, so bringing them up in any conversation is completely futile. They say over and over that it's just not their responsibility to consider other people when making decisions about their kids. They care only about their own children, who are apparently hearty and healthy in the face of serious diseases, but for some reason are delicate snowflakes with respect to vaccines. They so fear vaccines, many of which are composed of 'killed" or inactivated viruses, yet show no significant apprehension about their kids coming into contact with the real, full strength thing. It makes zero sense to prefer to expose a child to a live, completely intact microorganism versus an inactivated, weakened, or "killed" one. But logic is not really their strong suit.
  2. by   BostonFNP
    Quote from Horseshoe
    It should be abundantly clear by now that anti-vaxxers do not care about the vulnerable and compromised people in society, so bringing them up in any conversation is completely futile. They say over and over that it's just not their responsibility to consider other people when making decisions about their kids. They care only about their own children, who are apparently hearty and healthy in the face of serious diseases, but for some reason are delicate snowflakes with respect to vaccines. They so fear vaccines, many of which are composed of 'killed" or inactivated viruses, yet show no significant apprehension about their kids coming into contact with the real, full strength thing. It makes zero sense to prefer to expose a child to a live, completely intact microorganism versus an inactivated, weakened, or "killed" one. But logic is not really their strong suit.
    Again this is part of a fundamental element of conspiracist ideation, the ability to hold simultaneous belief in two mutually exclusive beliefs.
  3. by   JenTheSchoolRN
    Quote from Kooky Korky
    Call me old fashioned. But I'm not sure kids need to know how to spell cunnilingus or how to put a condom on a fake penis.

    Duggars, right on. (not the lack of contraception; to each his own, but that's not what I'm applauding about them)

    Kissing, being alone on dates, even holding hands - it all just leads to temptation that kids don't need.

    I wonder if parents are aware that Sex Ed is no longer about just anatomy, a woman's menstrual cycle, and wet dreams.

    I do think parents need to be telling kids about values and morality in relation to sexuality/sex.
    I do hope your children have never used the internet or a cell phone. Because, take it for what it is, sex is easy to find. And a lot of it is not factual, unfortunately. In my experience, pre-teens and teens seek it out when they aren't getting any factual information about it. Kids are curious creatures and porn is extremely easy to find and access.

    I also agree that parents need to be the moral compass for their children when it comes to sex - if you have read my previous posts, we are on the same page with that. Presenting facts is just that. Facts. Comprehensive sex education is meant to help parents start and continue conversations at home. I have many tools to do so for parents.

    I also send home a letter before I teach telling parents what comprehensive sex education is, the topics we cover, and give them an option to opt their child out of it. Thus far, I have not had one parent opt their child out of the class.

    I admit you also lost me at the Duggars. Their belief system included covering up the sexual assaults of their own daughters by their son.
  4. by   Farawyn
    Quote from NurseDisneyPrincess
    Is that really necessary? Are you not an adult?

    I've read this entire thing and while I'm not an anti-vaxxer, I'm appalled by a lot of the behavior seen on this thread. The opposing viewpoint isn't what's embarrassing here; it's the belittlement. There is no reason to be disrespectful. Hear everyone's viewpoint. Understand their perspective. Provide the data/research. Don't be a jerk or belittle them if they don't agree with you.

    Could you represent the profession with a little dignity? Stop acting childish.
    Oh, it was funny. A little levity.
  5. by   Farawyn
    Quote from FolksBtrippin
    I want to live in a free society.

    That means I have to let people make their own decisions about not being injected with flu vaccine, even if those decisions are wrong, misguided, not based on evidence, etc.

    I also understand that attempts to use force and actual force will just cause them to strengthen and steel themselves against vaccination further, because that is human nature.

    If we were talking about a virus that was causing mass death or deformity I would change my stance and say go ahead and use force. We're not there.
    Yes, because many people are educated and get the flu shot. You do realize how many people actually do die from the flu each year, do you not?
  6. by   Farawyn
    Quote from WestCoastSunRN
    Oh Boston. Conspiracy Theory is just a subcategory of Paranoia. We've certainly seen some paranoia (with a touch of drama) from the pro vaccine side, for example...
    "Antiscience will be the undoing of the world" (cue scary music).
    It will be. Vaccines alone. If you lot get your way of a "free society" and all meds and vaccines are done away with and we rub lavender oil all over each other, it will be the end of us all.
  7. by   WestCoastSunRN
    Quote from Farawyn
    It will be. Vaccines alone. If you lot get your way of a "free society" and all meds and vaccines are done away with and we rub lavender oil all over each other, it will be the end of us all.
    I'm unclear about what you are trying to say here. Are you asserting that MY desire is to get rid of all vaccines? And run lavender oil on people? Lol.
    Even though I have said over and over I am provaccine?
    I have argued here for talking to people respectfully about this issue and realize we all come to the table with anecdotes and biases -- and that those things color how we talk about things. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
    Honestly I think anything I've said in this thread is common sense. But I will agree, I haven't made super sexy sweeping generalizations that make for great drama and angst. And yeah, I'm not sure what exactly mandates should look like. Sue me, or make assumptions about me, villianize me and put me in the antivaxx camp -- because it's fun to do that, right?

    And it's also super helpful in having meaningful discourse.
  8. by   Kooky Korky
    Quote from Horseshoe
    It should be abundantly clear by now that anti-vaxxers do not care about the vulnerable and compromised people in society, so bringing them up in any conversation is completely futile. They say over and over that it's just not their responsibility to consider other people when making decisions about their kids. They care only about their own children, who are apparently hearty and healthy in the face of serious diseases, but for some reason are delicate snowflakes with respect to vaccines. They so fear vaccines, many of which are composed of 'killed" or inactivated viruses, yet show no significant apprehension about their kids coming into contact with the real, full strength thing. It makes zero sense to prefer to expose a child to a live, completely intact microorganism versus an inactivated, weakened, or "killed" one. But logic is not really their strong suit.
    That's a silly thing to say. We are not monsters who care nothing for our fellow man. Stir the pot much?

    "Snowflakes" is overused and outmoded. Be creative and come up with something different and original.

    Thanks for the illogical label. You just want to fight, not work toward a solution.
  9. by   Kooky Korky
    Quote from Farawyn
    Oh, it was funny. A little levity.
    It's not really funny when some of your colleagues are being vicious - like you deciding, without even saying why, that I'm not an RN. I'd bet that I've been one at least as long as or longer than you have been alive.

    If you were the recipient of meanness, you wouldn't find it so funny.

    So many people on here get angry right away. There's no real room for any difference of opinions. Sad thing for supposed professionals, mature men and women.
  10. by   Kooky Korky
    Quote from Jen-Elizabeth
    I do hope your children have never used the internet or a cell phone. Because, take it for what it is, sex is easy to find. And a lot of it is not factual, unfortunately. In my experience, pre-teens and teens seek it out when they aren't getting any factual information about it. Kids are curious creatures and porn is extremely easy to find and access.

    I also agree that parents need to be the moral compass for their children when it comes to sex - if you have read my previous posts, we are on the same page with that. Presenting facts is just that. Facts. Comprehensive sex education is meant to help parents start and continue conversations at home. I have many tools to do so for parents.

    I also send home a letter before I teach telling parents what comprehensive sex education is, the topics we cover, and give them an option to opt their child out of it. Thus far, I have not had one parent opt their child out of the class.

    I admit you also lost me at the Duggars. Their belief system included covering up the sexual assaults of their own daughters by their son.
    I agree their son and the parents' cover-up of his behavior were wrong. I forgot about that. Thanks for the reminder.
  11. by   Kooky Korky
    Quote from BostonFNP
    Again this is part of a fundamental element of conspiracist ideation, the ability to hold simultaneous belief in two mutually exclusive beliefs.
    In this life, there are many, many choices we must make as to whose interests come before someone else's interests.

    You want yours to come first, too.
  12. by   Kooky Korky
    Quote from Horseshoe
    Not wanting to repeat herself because you were too lazy to read the evidence she already provided is not a cop out.
    You have assumed that I didn't read it. I actually did read it. So there, Ms. Smarty Pants.
  13. by   Kooky Korky
    Quote from Horseshoe
    She was lost because what you said made absolutely zero sense.
    You her mouthpiece?

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