ALL NP's PLEASE READ THIS!

zenman · Jan 31, 2004

You better do what you love instead of chase money or you'll be sorry. During my Psych CNS therapy training, I met a guy that made $40k a month. That's no typo. Had no friends and couldn't ever figure out if anyone liked him for himself or his money. Felt he had to "buy" people as in giving them $600 suits. Part of his therapy was to talk to an old codger that picked up cans along the side of the highway in order to find out what really mattered :cool:

regret2004 · Jan 31, 2004

:) Hi there jewelsg627

I am sorry about your brother. It must have been very tough for you and your family.

Please read carefully and give it a serious deep thought about what I am trying to communicate with you.

I never have participated in these forums; although, I read the messages from time to time.

I came across your message and even though I am not a registered member, I did go through the trouble of registration process just because what you said truly touched me for two reasons- 1) I could see the sincerity and your loving nature and 2) I was in the same exact situation as you are in now; therefore, I just could not be indifferent to your message without sharing what I wished someone else would have told me when I needed then.

1) Without any doubt, Nursing is a noble profession but in reality and hands on whether as a NP or floor RN you are at the bottom of the pit. the reason is everyone in regard with pt(patient) care will come down on you if something goes wrong whether it is your fault or not. That may be the pharmacist, PT, OT, CNA, MD, etc. So, you have to please everybody and take crap from everybody. it can be frustrating to take blame for someone else's mistakes or shortcomings.

2) Do not believe what you hear in terms of working hours, salary, prestige, etc, this is what they tell you at school just to lure you in for their classes... but in reality when you work it in, it is so different.

3) you sound to be a very caring and intelligent person; therefore, if you have come this far (BA in Psych @ UCLA) I have no doubt with working hard and deligence you can be what you want to be even a MD, yes.

4) Nurses are clickish and you have to play the floor politics which are dirty and if you are not a player (neutral) or submissive to the old mama(older, more experienced nurse with a big mouth), you will be out for good or at best alienated . Many nurses will not admit to that because it is demeaning and it is hard to face and tell the reality of it. Have you ever heard of the term "Cat Fights"?!!!

5) Even as NP, you will be dumped on(pts) with very little intervals in between pt's visit and if you do not see certain number of pt's fast enough because you want to be hollistic and do pt education and practice safely; then your competence, knowledge, and integrity will be questioned and eventually will be out the door. You must generate income by seeing so many patients that exceeds the overheads and your salary, etc.

6) Speech therapist is another field that deals a lot with stroke pts It is very much in demand with good salary and a very light work load that interacts a great deal with patients.

Keep in mind that as NP you are putting you feet in MD(doctor) shoes with a nursing training and trained by nurses from a nursing program.

Everybody will look at you still as a nurse (the staff I mean). As you probably do know that nursing is a very noble profession; however, it is not well respected at all by anybody(in words perhaps but in action nope) no matter at what level. Those nurses who are sincere and let the secret out will tell you so.

As NP you will still be a nurse. That is a famous saying that NPs do say and many of them(there might be exceptions)wished they had gone into PA's program(physician assistant) who are trained by MD's or at least other PA's were trained by MD's are the instructors.

If you want to practice medicine as both NP's and PA's do, I would say it would be better to be trained by MD's than a RN's. PA's programs are run by MD's while NP's are run by RN's. That makes a whole lot of difference. Do not listen to what some say PA's do not have a licensure to practice independently, NP's do not either. To find out about that is to look at the clause in fine print that the Nurse Practitioner act specifies nationwide.

6) You have many other excellent options that you can easily apply for and or choose from such as-

a) PhD in Psychology(clinical Psych).

b) Physical therapy(PT)(which is your best bet and excellent in terms of salary, scheduling, flexibility, demand nationwide,...).

c) OT (Occupatinal therapy) which is no lesser than PT but lighter work load and only requires a B.S. while PT requires a M.S. to be board certified. The salary for both especially PT is no comparrison with NP at all(higher with more benefit or PT). The most importantly, you get the respect you deserve in these fields and you do not have to cat fight as RN's do most of the time.

d) PA (Physician Assistant) which nowdays you can get a M.S and be certified to practice. In this case you most often deal with MD's than RN's in the case of NP's and that makes a whole lot of difference on daily basis. Salary wise, PA's earn more than NP's. Most Physicians (not all) prefer PA's over NP's. You can also be hollistic at any one of these profesions. Do not get me wrong, there are very good NP's who are caring and competent but what I am trying to tell you here is that Nursing in general at ANY LEVEL does not have the Cut, the respect, treated right and fairly, the voice, and the prestige all other health care professionals do have and enjoy That goes to the very own nurse's attitude and behavior that makes a noble profession such a bad reputation.

Remind you nurses are the largest health care professionals in the nation with the most overworked, least respected (in reality and action not words), have the least voice to enact or pass a law in their own interest, and the least under paid for what they provide. What does that tell you? While you do not find these or at least to this extend in other associations among heathcare pros who have a much lesser number.

7) Pharmacy is a good option but you will not have any pt contact and get into it if you are very good in chem, especially O chem.

8) Do think about it, sleep on it because once you make a decision, it will be very difficult to u turn due to the time and finances you invested in. Above all, go into a field that you enjoy doing it on daily basis without regret.

Also, you can go around and ask MD's, PT's , OT's,... Take your time while you are taking pre Req courses and ask around and interview in detail about each specific profession with those who are already in it long enough(over 15 years)and explain your situation and dilemma.

Nevertheless, remember that you are the one who has to make the final decision and live by it every single hour of it.

Your sister is right and it seems like she cares for you and your success. Open up to her more.

I have seen it all and my advice is only based on hands on experience and let it be for the record that someone told you so.

The whole purpose of my effort here is When you look back in the future and ask yourself, what have I done to myself and my life?!!! Why people did not tell me the whole thing, so I could make a wiser decision?

By the way, if you choose to go into NP which I openly and deeply admonish you not to get into nursing period; do not choose UCLA's NP program at all. UCLA is an outstanding school overall but its Nursing(B.S.) and NP(M.S.) program is inadequate as well as the instructors. Be very resourceful in terms of what NP program you choose. I told ya so.

I do wish you the best because health care needs more people like you.

Best of luck to you and be smart in what you choose while caring for all those pt's who need someone like you.

:)

Dave ARNP · Jan 31, 2004

It is NOT better to become a PA and they are NOT better trained.

If the OP has ANY urge to ever step out beyond the confines of a MD supevision, she's sunk as a PA. NP's are able to function as independent practitioners in many states, and only require direct physican supverision in five.

But this isn't about PA -vs- NP. That's a whole other issue.

If you're looking for a mid-level job, NP is where it is.

Dave

fab4fan · Jan 31, 2004

Can someone please explain to me why people come on this board and proceed to bust on the nursing profession?

Really, the poster above Dave, for all those claims about nursing being a "noble profession," shows nothing but contempt for nurses. Even the "noble profession" comment is just dripping with condescention.

"regret2004," I don't know what your hangup is, but I hope when you need care from a skilled, compassionate nurse (or NP), you don't live to "regret" your dismissive comments.

Oh, one more thing: As an older nurse, I take umbrage at your remarks that older nurses are so hateful. Rudeness knows no age limits...there are plenty of young nurses who are unkind, too.

FNP grrl · Jan 31, 2004

well....i disagree w/ just about every bitter word regret2004 wrote- especially the anti-NP comments. as an NP, i am very respected by staff, patients, PAs, and MDs alike in my jobs. imo, any NP who isn't being respected is either 1.) in a lousy job or 2.) incompetent. while i am sorry regret2004 had such bad experiences...that post is not representative of the whole profession.

not to say nursing is perfect....but please bear in mind that when someone takes such a strongly negative view of a profession that is well-loved by many of us, you can bet it was based on very unfortunate personal experience, not a balanced or objective outlook.

i love nursing (ER nursing specifically) & i love being an NP. which does not mean i have loved every minute of it, but on balance- yes, i love it. i'd do it again. i'd recommend it to anyone who feels in their heart that it is the right career for them. i do NOT recommend it to someone who can't figure out anything better to do.

have you considered making an appointment to see a career counselor? that might help you clarify your goals.

i agree that you have to choose what is right for you regardless of what your sister or anyone else thinks.

about being too emotional---there is a tightrope which must be successfully walked to stay in nursing long term without serious burn-out/bitterness. you must balance between compassion/empathy on the one hand and self-care/healthy detachment on the other. too much in either direction can send you off course. this balancing act is very hard...but it CAN be done. i have seen many nurses stay in the field for years & years without burn-out b/c they learned to do this well. keep this in mind...and you'll do ok.

good luck, whatever you choose.

jaimealmostRN · Jan 31, 2004

I too have had a family member (who works in finance) ask me why I wanted to be an RN. They told me they thought nurses were subservient, "mousey" women! Every single RN/LPN I know is strong, assertive and compassionate (also superorganized!). As a senior RN student, I can only hope to be as well educated as the examples I have seen in my professors and at our hospital. And all of the lawyers I know (esp. those who only became lawyers for the "status") are misreable and in a state of constant competition since they are, in fact, a dime a dozen (ever look in the yellow pages?). Don't let uninformed family members or friends talk you out of a wonderful profession, they'll probably change their tune if they ever visit a hospital.

Sheri257 · Jan 31, 2004

Originally posted by zenman
You better do what you love instead of chase money or you'll be sorry. During my Psych CNS therapy training, I met a guy that made $40k a month. That's no typo. Had no friends and couldn't ever figure out if anyone liked him for himself or his money. Felt he had to "buy" people as in giving them $600 suits. Part of his therapy was to talk to an old codger that picked up cans along the side of the highway in order to find out what really mattered

I'm supposed to worry about some lonely rich guy? I'm not trying to get rich. I'm talking about basic survival.

Perhaps you've heard of the recession? Massive layoffs and downsizing? The jobless recovery? Millions of jobs being exported overseas where foreigners who are willing to work for ten cents on the dollar take American jobs in droves?

Or, should I "do what I love" and go broke?

Been there already. I was sorrier when I was broke.

I think I will love nursing, but I don't know for sure yet.

I will love being able to survive even more.

mitchsmom · Jan 31, 2004

It sounds to me like you are just not confident about the prereqs & MCAT needed for med school.

jewelsg627 · Feb 1, 2004

The only other job I could see myself doing...and truly enjoying it...is teaching, as a professor, at a university. The drawback to that is, I DON"T want to publish! I wonder what teaching in nursing would be like? Perhaps I can combine the two jobs...? Does anyone know a prof. of nursing?

---> This guy is so cute! --->

globalRN · Feb 2, 2004

In a university, you will never make professor if you do not publish...AND in recognized peer-reviewed journals.

Even the position of assistant professor or lecturer requires a doctorate and a record of publication for most universities and even colleges.

My experience: I love teaching students but the politics, pwerplays and powerstruggles among the teaching staff can be very offputting. Some role model!!! Nurses can be our own worse enemies.

jewelsg627 · Feb 3, 2004

Hi regret2004 and everyone taking time to read this,

I just finished a midterm and was studying all week, so that is why I have not replied on this board for awhile. I just realized that I posted and earlier comment about teaching and realized that I didn't even see your posting, regret2004. Here are my thoughts:

First of all, no matter what anyone says on this board, I want to thank you, sincerely, for just taking the time to tell me about your experience...I truly got teary-eyed at the thought that someone would actually take that amount of time to help me out---it's not very often that you find that, but luckily I have found it here on this board from everyone's comments =).

I realize that different people will have different opinions on professions...I just want to let ALL of you know that the reason I posted here in the first place, is because I wanted advice from real professionals in the field--good or bad.

I appreciate, deeply, ALL of the advice/feedback that everyone had given me here. I won't lie, I am still slightly confused...but it's going to take awhile for me to figure things out, obviously (as much as I wished I could figure it out overnight, it's not gonna happen). I have seen a career counselor, but it wasn't of much help...however, I think I will go back again and try it once more.

Again thank ALL of you, nurse-loving and nurse-"hating" (if that's what you want to call it) alike.

Sincerely,

Julie :)

FNP grrl · Feb 4, 2004

julie-

i appreciate the way you worded your above post. i had actually re-read my original post recently & i wasn't too happy w/ the way it came across. i think i presented my viewpoint-which is different from regret2004's- in a somewhat judgmental way- and i'd like to apologize for that. you are so right- considering all viewpoints, positive AND negative, is an intelligent & healthy way to approach a big decision like this.

take care & best of luck to you.