Agency Nursing vs Staff Nursing - page 8

Hi All! I am preparing to do a debate in my Nursing 510 course about agency vs staff nursing. It is a formal debate complete with PowerPoint presentation, etc. My team and I will be arguing... Read More

  1. by   SKM-NURSIEPOOH
    originally posted by susy k ... the study looked at the staffing mix of all nurses (new grads, experience level, educational level) to look at how it affected infection, etc. in the process of analyzing data, noticed the correlation. the point of the study was not to single out agency nurses nor was it the goal, intent or premise. that is what i want everyone to understand.
    ...because even if the original intent of the article was to take a look at how the affects of various nursing personnel impact have on infection, etc...what does the resulting correlation found in this article have to do with your original premise that utilizing agency nurses as opposed to staff nurses doesn't fix a broken system. your premise was that utilizing agency nurses does nothing to solve the overall nursing shortage issue & the lack of institutionalized participation by agency nurses. finding a correlation in a study that doesn't support your original argument about using agency nurses as a "quick fix" to the broken system is what's so confusing...at least for me...because it doesn't support your view about agency nurses...the correlation is just an added bonus to what you've said initially.

    so again, why present the article if it doesn't support your orginial premise???
  2. by   Q.
    Last edit by Susy K on Apr 22, '02
  3. by   Q.
    Originally posted by SKM-NURSIEPOOH

    So again, why present the article if it doesn't support your orginial premise???
    Because it was appropriate in defending our position, that's why.

    My opinion that I expressed here on this board has nothing to do with the debate and how it was presented. We didn't present the debate from the stance that agency doesn't get as involved as staff nurses, we presented it from the standpoint that agency shouldn't be used PERIOD.
  4. by   fadingyouth
    The use of the word"day" was not to be taken as just a 24 hr. period. Surprisingly enough, I am well aware of the time it takes to justify a study. Research is not an overnite process.
    Perhaps your stand on agency nurses will allow you to work harder, provide less care due to less time, and rethink your previous ideas.
    Opinionated persons in any business are difficult to work with. but especially hard on those who accept no help when it is offerred.
    Although I feel sorry for the patients, I cannot shed a tear for small-minded nurses.
  5. by   Q.
    Originally posted by fadingyouth
    The use of the word"day" was not to be taken as just a 24 hr. period. Surprisingly enough, I am well aware of the time it takes to justify a study. Research is not an overnite process.
    Perhaps your stand on agency nurses will allow you to work harder, provide less care due to less time, and rethink your previous ideas.
    Opinionated persons in any business are difficult to work with. but especially hard on those who accept no help when it is offerred.
    Although I feel sorry for the patients, I cannot shed a tear for small-minded nurses.
    I sure hope your post wasn't directed at me personally because this was a debate for class. The con position was what was handed to me to argue. I wasn't allowed to "rethink" my ideas as the assignment was to argue against agency nurse use. In doing so, have subsequently formed an opinion. Sorry if it doesn't jive with yours.
  6. by   fadingyouth
    A wise man once said "if the shoe fits, wear it"
    Therefore, the impression would be that since you formed a bias against agency nurses, you will at sometime in your career pick up the slack and the associated difficulties.
  7. by   Stargazer
    A wise man once said "if the shoe fits, wear it"
    Therefore, the impression would be that since you formed a bias against agency nurses, you will at sometime in your career pick up the slack and the associated difficulties.
    Huh?
  8. by   SKM-NURSIEPOOH
    originally posted by susy k ...because it was appropriate in defending our position, that's why.

    my opinion that i expressed here on this board has nothing to do with the debate and how it was presented. we didn't present the debate from the stance that agency doesn't get as involved as staff nurses, we presented it from the standpoint that agency shouldn't be used period.
    i meant why present the article here on this bb not in presenting it to your class. i've stated before that it was appropriate to present it to your class as you all had the opportunity to read, dissect, & come to whatever conclusions.

    i just meant, why present the article here on the bb in the first place if that's not the message that you wanted relayed here. when you first brought the subject-up & later-on in your debating, your position was against using agency nursing as a "quick fix" to a broken healthcare system...not that they have a higher correlation to needle sticks & increased infection doing agency usage...as the article suggests in their data. it's as if you've used the conclusion of their data as something else to add credit or support to your original position.
    Last edit by SKM-NURSIEPOOH on Apr 22, '02
  9. by   mattsmom81
    To those who say we should not utilize agency nurses, I only shrug and say fine with me, "Let them work short." Hospitals LOVE when nurses cooperate with that idea...saves 'em a few bucks. $ $

    This may be what FadingYouth was getting at as well.

    I have worked at facilities whose policy was NOT to use agency and they ran their nurses ragged..floated untrained nurses into ER and ICU, etc.Working dangerously short became the routine. Of course they had trouble keeping their nurses for very long....they tended to recruit new grads, give them a fancy title and 'mold' them to their way of thinking....until the poor dears figured things out and moved on to greener pastures.

    Oh and perhaps most important...patient care was the pits and the hospital developed a horrid reputation in the community...many of the docs pulled out too...
    Last edit by mattsmom81 on Apr 22, '02
  10. by   Brownms46
    Originally posted by Susy K


    Because it was appropriate in defending our position, that's why.

    My opinion that I expressed here on this board has nothing to do with the debate and how it was presented. We didn't present the debate from the stance that agency doesn't get as involved as staff nurses, we presented it from the standpoint that agency shouldn't be used PERIOD.
    You really have GOT to be kidding?? Right??? You couldn't actually be advocating NOT using agency nurses at all??? :chuckle:...if this was the case then the hospital I working at now... it would be closed!!! Why because the majority of their staff is agency...or travlers! And for the other hospitals I have worked with in the last 20 + yrs...there would be even LESS nurses out there willing to work with 10 + or more pts d/t not having the staff to share the load!
    You think the shortage is bad now....just try NOT using agency and she how long folks stay around. and how unsafe clinical situations can REALLY get!
    I'm glad the nurses I work with in the last few days don't feel as you do...as they were GLAD not to have 9 or more pts...as THANKED me for being there!!!

    And as for mistakes...I could share some horror stories about pts I received report on from STAFF nurses only to find the report was erroneous to say the least! I also walked into a pt room just last nite to find a Dobutrex drip that had RAN OUT....and on the same pt. a Dopamine drip that was going at FIVE times the ORDERED rate!!! !! I also watched nurses touching blood and other body fuilds with NO gloves on....AND not once did I see anyone wash their hands....and "I" was the only agency person on duty!!! I also withnessed a pt. IV site where a "staff nurse" had actually changed the date on it to read a later date than the site had actually been started ....so SHE wouldn't have to changed the site!! Guess that must have been a big plus for infection control..humm??? Right..

    I say...let ALL the nurses who don't want help...PLEASE speak up...and "WE" agency nurses should make sure "WE" don't go to your hospital when our agencies call saying your hospital needs help!!! In fact...tell your hospital NOT to bother calling agencies for help....and save us the trouble of being abused by nurses who think we cause more trouble then "we" are worth!

    I wonder how long would staff nurses put up with having to take unsafe assignments...hummm??
    Last edit by Brownms46 on Apr 22, '02
  11. by   Q.
    Originally posted by SKM-NURSIEPOOH
    I meant why present the article here on this BB not in presenting it to your class. I've stated before that it was appropriate to present it to your class as you all had the opportunity to read, dissect, & come to whatever conclusions.

    Actually no. Are you familiar with how debates are done? One side presents their argument, backed with research for 10 minutes. The other side presents their argument, backed with research, for 10 minutes. Then the other side is offered a rebuttal period, and then the debate is over. In preparing for the debate, you research BOTH sides, not just the side YOU are presenting. You do this to anticipate and refute the other side's arguments. For example - the pro side listed articles that said that higher use of agency means more staff and better patient care. WE presented higher use of agency correlates with increased patient safety risks and does NOT equal better patient care. There is no presenting the article, circulating it and having everyone dissect it. The pro side, if having done their research, should have ANTICIPATED our using that argument and have prepared a rebuttal. And they did.

    It's as if you've used the conclusion of their data as something else to add credit or support to your original position.
    That is precisely why we used it. We were trying to defend our position. That is what a debate is. I'm confused by YOUR confusion in all this.
    Last edit by Susy K on Apr 22, '02
  12. by   Q.
    Sigh.
    Brownie - this was a debate. A DEBATE. A class project. We really didn't have a choice NOT to advocate for agency or not. If we flat our refused well then, I guess we flunk the class as it was worth 40% of our grade.
    One of the girls on my team IS an agency nurse and she argued against agency as passionately as the rest of us - so we can PASS THE CLASS. She also noted she learned something. Sometimes exercises like these are designed to expose you to other ideas and opinions.

    I think we are all missing the point here. Let's all go back and read the FIRST post in this thread.
    Last edit by Susy K on Apr 22, '02
  13. by   Q.
    Originally posted by Stargazer
    Huh?
    I second that. Huh?

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Agency Nursing vs Staff Nursing