Adn's Who Don't Care

[nursing4me23]

hello all,

i would like to know if there are any adn's out there who have no desire to get there bsn's. not because of laziness or not wanting knowledge or anything else negative, but just don't want to or feel its necessary because they don't want to be an admin or charge anything. or maybe you have other reasons. i feel there is so much pressure...rn to bsn..rn to bsn. geez adn's are just as effective or maybe sometimes more than a bsn. sure they get paid a little more but over 12 months the extra dollars don't seem worth it.

so...am i alone in thinking this.

i don't mean to offend the bsn's or anyone else. just curious.

[zenman]

Thanks for all of you who replied.

i wasn't trying to discourage anyone from getting their bsn at all

i just wanted to see if not having it had stopped them in any way

and i see that it hasn't. i wish all of you the best in whatever route

you decide to take.

:wink2:

Our profession is different from others where more education is rewarded by increased earnings as well as other benefits.

Perhaps we need to approach this from another angle. Since having more education doesn't result in higher pay in most cases, maybe we should decrease the amount of education in order to increase the benefit ratio. A 45K salary looks much better to a graduate of a 1 yr program than to a graduate of a 4 yr progam.

I obtained an MSN in order to become a better bedside nurse (but have done educational and management), even though many think that further education is only for management or teaching. However, I originally became an RN after 1 yr of ARMY medic training, then challenged the the state boards and went to work in a Level I trauma center.

So maybe we need to revamp the nursing programs and turn out 1 year grads...maybe somthing similar to the ARMY/NAVY medics or Special Forces medics. What do ya think?

[JessicRN]

If I were to go back to school, it would not be for a BSN.

Our clinical ladder rewards a Bachelor's degree, not necessarily a BSN.

How about making yourself more marketable and get an advanced degree in something else (computer science, criminology, heck even forestry).

Check into it and see if, for that extra pay, the degree MUST be in nursing!

I had your same thinking 5 years ago and decided to go for my Graduate degree in Computer Information Systems. I got 5 courses short of my degree (I had received my Graduate certificate by then) and attempted to find a job. I found I could start at the ground floor for $36000 if I even got a job pretty much anyone who applies had to have experience since I did not I did ot have a chance in hell of getting a job. So here I am again. By the way I did checked in our facility it does not matter what the degree to get the extra pay but you only get $5.00 for no matter how many Baccalaureate degrees you have

[ZASHAGALKA, RN]

So maybe we need to revamp the nursing programs and turn out 1 year grads...maybe somthing similar to the ARMY/NAVY medics or Special Forces medics. What do ya think?

Why mess with success? The ADN model has proven to be a highly successful 'entry to practice' model.

And until we reach a non-sarcastic consensus on where to go in the future, that is where the issue will stay. Forty years should have taught us at least that much.

So the question becomes: do we waste another 40 yrs on the same tired, polarized debate, or do we look at it from fresh perspectives?

A real model that brings everybody along and removes the insults and taints COULD bring nursing to BSN entry in 10 yrs. Doctors did the same thing inside of 10 yrs with the Flexner Report in 1909.

As it stands now, in 10 yrs, we will STILL be saying, "In 10 yrs, BSN will be the standard. . ." Just like we did in 1965. And 1978. And 1985. And 1992. And 2000.

What we need is an incentive to move the issue along and not a strong-armed legislative fiat. And the issue must protect current stakeholders, such as today's ADNs and the community colleges that depend on the model. How about a fully articulated model, where all programs, CC and university are equally articulated, allowing CCs to benefit from 2 yrs of nursing education with automatic admissions to upper level university transfers, (would require active collaboration between CCs linked to Unis regarding admission space) and real pay differentials for BSN. Oh, and add to that an extra year of real and actual internships, financially supported by real 'teaching' environments. That would require ALL programs to adapt to create a unified model and would give no programs an elistist air. In other words, not just today's ADNs would need to be 'grandfathered', but today's BSNs as well. That would also serve to create the real investment in education that would both necessitate and justify the increase in salary and respect that such a move seeks. And, that could allow for another fully articulated model with education invested enough at the new '5 yr' BSN level to outline a move to NP/ANP with 2 yrs further education a reality and would serve to foster an eventual move to NP entry to practice. What you'd end up with would be two educational pathways: 5 yr RN, and 7 yr NP. THAT would create the equal playing field that would lead to the respect sought, and it could be done without leaving anybody behind.

~faith,

Timothy.

[zenman]

Why mess with success? The ADN model has proven to be a highly successful 'entry to practice' model.

~faith,

Timothy.

I agree with most of your comments but do we know the above is correct? The ADN was created to correct a nursing shortage. Has it succeeded in that aspect?

The OP wanted to know if there are any adn's out there who have no desire to get bsn's basically because "adn's are just as effective or maybe sometimes more than a bsn." So how do we know her statement true? If it is correct, and as you say "highly successful," maybe we can even "streamline" nursing education further. If I was a hotshot nurse with a year of training...and I'm no smarter than anyone else...why not go for it?

[Retired R.N.]

Our profession is different from others where more education is rewarded by increased earnings as well as other benefits.

Perhaps we need to approach this from another angle. Since having more education doesn't result in higher pay in most cases, maybe we should decrease the amount of education in order to increase the benefit ratio. A 45K salary looks much better to a graduate of a 1 yr program than to a graduate of a 4 yr progam.

I obtained an MSN in order to become a better bedside nurse (but have done educational and management), even though many think that further education is only for management or teaching. However, I originally became an RN after 1 yr of ARMY medic training, then challenged the the state boards and went to work in a Level I trauma center.

So maybe we need to revamp the nursing programs and turn out 1 year grads...maybe somthing similar to the ARMY/NAVY medics or Special Forces medics. What do ya think?

Zenman,

Could you please give us more information about this medic training? Is this a clearly defined program with specific components divided between classroom and clinical experience, or is one just assigned to a medic's position with the assumption that on-the-job training will follow? If it is a fixed-length program, what tangible benefits are there for the students at various stages or after completing it? Promotions? Pay raises?

[angel337, MSN, RN]

I agree with most of your comments but do we know the above is correct? The ADN was created to correct a nursing shortage. Has it succeeded in that aspect?

The OP wanted to know if there are any adn's out there who have no desire to get bsn's basically because "adn's are just as effective or maybe sometimes more than a bsn." So how do we know her statement true? If it is correct, and as you say "highly successful," maybe we can even "streamline" nursing education further. If I was a hotshot nurse with a year of training...and I'm no smarter than anyone else...why not go for it?

i totally agree with you zenman. and this is why i think this whole way of thinking is embarrassing to the nursing profession.

[JenNJFLCA]

I got my BSN because I know that I want to take my education further. I originally was going to get my ADN, but it only took me 1 semester longer to get my BSN, and I figured I should get at least a BSN before I decide to have kids. This leave me open to get my masters one class at a time once I have kids. ADN's are great, BSNs are great, Diploma nurses are great...we're all RN's! :)

[zenman]

Zenman,

Could you please give us more information about this medic training? Is this a clearly defined program with specific components divided between classroom and clinical experience, or is one just assigned to a medic's position with the assumption that on-the-job training will follow? If it is a fixed-length program, what tangible benefits are there for the students at various stages or after completing it? Promotions? Pay raises?

This was the ARMY's medical corpsman program...not a current civilian program... and included classroom and clinical training on the units and in the field. Special Forces medics have a different focus since they can be more isolated. I went through in 1970 so the training might be different now.

[Alexsys]

I am an ADN and I am in a crossover BSN program now (:mortarboard: in April 2007). I did this because eventually I want to become a CRNA. Otherwise I would not have the desire to get my BSN either

[ibnathan]

Currently, I am enrolled in a ADN program and will hopefully be graduating this December. I do have a desire to go on and get my bachelor's but probably not in nursing. I am sick and tired of the bullsh!t nursing theory it is crap. So I will probably get a degree in chemistry or biology, and then look to get into either NP or Anethesia school.

[Retired R.N.]

This was the ARMY's medical corpsman program...not a current civilian program... and included classroom and clinical training on the units and in the field. Special Forces medics have a different focus since they can be more isolated. I went through in 1970 so the training might be different now.

So, after completing this one year program and some experience, you were able to challenge the state board exam and obtain an R.N. license. Did this course include any pediatric or obstetric nursing, or did you learn these through independent study? Did the Army have unusually high prerequisites before you could be admitted to this intense course of instruction? My question now is that if the Army could teach you that much in such a short time, why can't more schools of nursing do something similar?

[Alexsys]

I was in the Army as a medic in the 90's. I still had to go through the whole ADN program (and take all of the pre req's too ). I did not get exempt from anything. I did get extra points towards the nursing program for my past experience though.