LOC or ABC first?

Specialties Emergency

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I feel like this is a silly question, but it is a topic that recently came up in class (I am just about to finish nursing school), and it is driving me off-the-wall CRAZY!

We all know that our ABCs are paramount to our practice as healthcare professionals. My instructor, who is a wonderful, very knowledgable ICU/recovery room nurse, recently insisted, in a nutshell, that the ABCs come before establishing the level of consciousness.

Now, as an EMT, I have always been trained to think that LOC comes before ABCs in major part because this can help dictate the airway adjunct. Are they semi-conscious? Well, then, they likely have a gag reflex, so drop an NPA. Are they unconscious? Drop an OPA. That sort of thing....And of course, if they are unconscious, we may very well not have any breathing or circulation, and we need to initiate CPR.

In real life, healthcare professionals can multitask, and we are not sitting there going, "OK - I just evaluated his airway. Now, let me assess his breathing and circulation. Hmm..." In other words, we make several assessments at once regarding LOC, ABCs, what have you.

So, why is this whole thing driving me crazy??? Well, in addition to not feeling like a dummy, I'd like to one day become a Certified ER nurse. And I suppose the NCLEX is important, too ;p

I feel as though my teacher has a slightly different perspective as an ICU nurse, which is why she states this is the correct answer. She, after all, usually receives the patient with an airway in place, etc.

Feedback would be great! Thanks so much!!

Specializes in Psych ICU, addictions.

ABCs...and to be honest, you're won't be able to help but notice the patient's LOC--or at least get a general idea of it--as you're checking for airway, breathing and circulation.

Specializes in ICU/Medical/Surgical.

nursing theory vs actual practice

Except to the person you start chest compressions on who was really just asleep.

QUOTE]

This wouldn't happen unless you skipped C and so didn't check the persons pulse before starting chest compressions :/ It would be pretty important to make sure their heart isn't actually beating before you start pumping on their chest lol

You always have your rare situations as well. When someone is hypoglycemic/hyperglycemic, they can lose consciousness and if it's too low you won't be able to wake them. So, in that situation you need to assess their breath, etc. then check BS, you are most likely not going to start chest compression's on this person, just saying. Anyway, I know this is off topic. Basically, when you are taking the NCLEX you need to think like a nurse not an EMT.

You completely skipped over PULSE/HEART BEAT. If they are breathing you do not then check their BS lol aka BG, you check thier pulse! You know, ABC, not AB then BG. If you check their ABC and they are within normal range and they are unconcious then you could check BG.

If a pt is unconcious, for whatever reason, and they are completely unresponsive, you check airway, then breathing THEN pulse. You give them only rescue breaths if they have a heart beat but no respiration and rescue breaths and chest compressions if they have no resp and no beat.

Yes, yes I know, I still haven't gotten in the habit of the CAB, my bad.

And I just realized, it is LOC first! If you see someone unconcious you don't just walk up and lay your head on their chest or put your hand under their nose to check for pulse and respirations. It's "hey are you ok?!", give a little shake, no response then sternal rub then CAB. Of course this all happens in a matter of seconds but it's still LOC first.

In my experience, ABC is always first but LIC simultaneously tues into that. If a person can't breath or isn't profuse ing, you will immediately notice the alteration I their LOC. if you can't breath, you can't think or speak. You will get an initial feel for their LOC but it may change depending on how quickly and successfully you address their ABC

Specializes in Cardiac.
You completely skipped over PULSE/HEART BEAT. If they are breathing you do not then check their BS lol aka BG, you check thier pulse! You know, ABC, not AB then BG. If you check their ABC and they are within normal range and they are unconcious then you could check BG.

If a pt is unconcious, for whatever reason, and they are completely unresponsive, you check airway, then breathing THEN pulse. You give them only rescue breaths if they have a heart beat but no respiration and rescue breaths and chest compressions if they have no resp and no beat.

Yea, I know that, hence the fact that I put RARE situation. I know all about the ABC's. Gesh, I am a Registered Nurse not an idiot, gesh.

Specializes in Peds/Neo CCT,Flight, ER, Hem/Onc.
Except to the person you start chest compressions on who was really just asleep.

QUOTE]

This wouldn't happen unless you skipped C and so didn't check the persons pulse before starting chest compressions :/ It would be pretty important to make sure their heart isn't actually beating before you start pumping on their chest lol

Really?!! I didn't know that.

If a patient is symptomatic with a HR of less than 60 it is appropriate to start chest compressions. Thought I'd throw that one in there

Specializes in being a Credible Source.
If a patient is symptomatic with a HR of less than 60 it is appropriate to start chest compressions. Thought I'd throw that one in there
Only with peds, not with adults.

Only pulseless adults get compressions. Symptomatic bradycardia gets you an ambulance ride, external pacer pads, and probably some atropine...

PALS vs ACLS

Only with peds, not with adults.

Only pulseless adults get compressions. Symptomatic bradycardia gets you an ambulance ride, external pacer pads, and probably some atropine...

PALS vs ACLS

Oh yeah I have peds only brain..sorry bout that!

I'm a newly licensed AEMT and ABC is always first, in any situation. LOC can be determined while you're assessing airway. breathing, and circulation. Typically you are speaking to your patient, so their level of consciousness quickly becomes apparent.

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