The DNP and what it means for the APN

  1. 0 i know there has been a lot of debate whether or not nps will have to be doctorate prepared to practice. well i was just browsing on the university of iowas website, this is what i found:

    more about the dnp degree
    the american association of colleges of nursing requires that by 2015 all nurse practitioners entering advance practice be prepared at the doctorate level. learn more about the emerging role of the dnp check these links:

    www.aacn.nche.edu

    www.nonpf.com

    here's the link i found this information at
    http://www.nursing.uiowa.edu/academi.../dnp/index.htm

    what are your thoughts on this?
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  3. Visit  StangGang92 profile page

    About StangGang92

    From 'Iowa'; Joined Feb '10; Posts: 132; Likes: 33.

    33 Comments so far...

  4. Visit  elkpark profile page
    2
    My thought is that I'm surprised an institution of higher learning such as UI is so sloppy about its use of language. The AACN can't "require" anything in terms of licensure or certification. Its member schools can choose to go along with the AACN recommendations about nursing graduate programs, which most probably will (indeed, the "update" report on the AACN website notes that 72% of its member schools with APRN programs are either in the process of converting their MSN advanced practice programs to DNPs or planning to do so -- that means that, so far, 28% of the AACN member schools with advanced practice programs aren't planning to do so, and there's no indication in the AACN report that the AACN can "require" even these member organizations to make the change). This is still just a proposal by some of the academic organizations, nothing more. It is a long way from becoming mandatory.

    There's a lot of discussion of the whole DNP brouhaha elsewhere on this site, if you're interested in reading what's already been discussed.
    Spacklehead and sirI like this.
  5. Visit  sirI profile page
    0
    It is not a requirement for all programs in all states for it has yet to become a requirement. It's a vision/proposal only as elkpark pointed out.

    Yes, many programs are going to the DNP as the terminal degree like you've pointed out at U of Iowa.

    Right now, it is still a vision.

    The AACN endorsed the position of DNP from the start.

    If one looks at the AACN site, you can find many links on updates (since March 2010), but there have been no official statement(s) anywhere that the DNP has been officially adopted/required as the terminal degree.

    AACN - DNP - Position Statement

    AACN - DNP - FAQs

    http://www.aacn.nche.edu/DNP/pdf/DNPForum3-10.pdf
    Last edit by sirI on Jun 1, '10
  6. Visit  sirI profile page
    5
    Have re-titled the thread to decrease confusion.

    Here is (now closed due to repeated TOS violations secondary to inflammatory/rude discussion) another thread about the DNP:

    Doctoral degree to become an NP??? - Nursing for Nurses

    I will respectfully request that this new thread stick to the DNP and what it means for the APN.

    It is NOT a discussion to be picked apart by non-nurses who come here with an agenda, lurk, troll, toss hand-grenades in the thread and sit back for fireworks, and/or generally post to be divisive/inflame/disrespect........etc.

    It is NOT a discussion on what some who come here think is the "woefully uneducated/unprepared NP" in comparison to a physician.

    It is NOT a discussion on anything but the "vision" as outlined in 2004 about the DNP becoming the terminal degree for educative preparation for the APN...............in 2015.
    Last edit by sirI on Jun 1, '10
    prairienp, ms_sheesh, LisaDNP, and 2 others like this.
  7. Visit  Sugah Britches profile page
    0
    i know that many of the experienced np's feel the dnp is just a money racket by universities. there may be some truth to this. but it seem to me, with the increasing challenges of healthcare and the constant berate-ment of nps by mds and do’s, the dnp program has the potential to counter some of the criticisms. i believe it is an evolution in response to the need to keep up with the growing bodies of knowledge and an attempt to respond to the assertions that nps do not provide safe patient care. there is an increasing trend for other healthcare professions to require doctorates. in order to keep a footing and be view as a legitimate profession (in the eyes of counterparts) the dnp may prove to be a necessity.
  8. Visit  StangGang92 profile page
    0
    Quote from elkpark
    My thought is that I'm surprised an institution of higher learning such as UI is so sloppy about its use of language.
    I'm surprised also, from what I understood from their website is that it will be a requirement. It seems to be very deceiving to use this wording "The American Association of Colleges of Nursing requires that by 2015 all nurse practitioners entering advance practice be prepared at the doctorate level."

    What would be the benefit of them wording this is such a misleading way? Getting 3-4 years tuition as opposed to 1-2?
  9. Visit  Sugah Britches profile page
    0
    Quote from sirI
    It is not a requirement for all programs in all states for it has yet to become a requirement. It's a vision/proposal only as elkpark pointed out.

    Yes, many programs are going to the DNP as the terminal degree like you've pointed out at U of Iowa.

    Right now, it is still a vision.

    The AACN endorsed the position of DNP from the start.

    If one looks at the AACN site, you can find many links on updates (since March 2010), but there have been no official statement(s) anywhere that the DNP has been officially adopted/required as the terminal degree.

    AACN - DNP - Position Statement

    AACN - DNP - FAQs

    http://www.aacn.nche.edu/DNP/pdf/DNPForum3-10.pdf

    I suppose UI would refer to: Recommendation 10: The practice doctorate be the graduate degree for advanced nursing practice preparation, including but not limited to the four current APN roles: clinical nurse specialist, nurse anesthetist, nurse midwife, and nurse practitioner.

    as the rational behind the statement.
  10. Visit  elkpark profile page
    0
    Quote from Sugah Britches
    I suppose UI would refer to: Recommendation 10: The practice doctorate be the graduate degree for advanced nursing practice preparation, including but not limited to the four current APN roles: clinical nurse specialist, nurse anesthetist, nurse midwife, and nurse practitioner.

    as the rational behind the statement.
    And it is exactly that, a recommendation. Nothing more, so far (and a long way from being anything more).


    Quote from StangGang92
    I'm surprised also, from what I understood from their website is that it will be a requirement. It seems to be very deceiving to use this wording "The American Association of Colleges of Nursing requires that by 2015 all nurse practitioners entering advance practice be prepared at the doctorate level."

    What would be the benefit of them wording this is such a misleading way? Getting 3-4 years tuition as opposed to 1-2?
    You got me ... However, we've had quite a few students posting here that some instructor or another told them that this is now a requirement (although usually it's been a matter of a verbal interaction with a single instructor, not a statement on a website). I honestly don't know whether these people are that uninformed, simply sloppy about what language they use, or have some specific agenda I don't get. But there's certainly a lot of unreliable information being given to students and others who aren't in a position to know better and assume that the "experts" to whom they're speaking are correct.
  11. Visit  sirI profile page
    0
    Quote from elkpark
    And it is exactly that, a recommendation. Nothing more, so far (and a long way from being anything more).

    ...I honestly don't know whether these people are that uninformed, simply sloppy about what language they use, or have some specific agenda I don't get. But there's certainly a lot of unreliable information being given to students and others who aren't in a position to know better and assume that the "experts" to whom they're speaking are correct.
    Totally agree with this.
  12. Visit  Evalynn profile page
    0
    I have heard that nurse practitioners will need doctorates now to practice as well, although I am here because I want to make sure it's true. It's interesting to me if it turns out to be true because I think this will create a shortage of nurse practitioners at a time when we need them most - in 2014, everyone will have health care and there will be a huge shortage of primary care providers. Also interested in the fact that PAs are pretty similar to NPs; will they now require a doctorate level degree? I am thinking probably not, which makes me think that being a PA might be more appealing now.

    I am starting my BSN this fall and it was my desire to eventually get a doctorate anyway because I love research, but I was counting on being satisfied with a master's level education if life and a family got in the way of more schooling. That being said - I've noticed that there are SO many doctorate programs out there, and it seems if there is a new standard for NPs, it should be as universal as possible - and clinically focused. Is this in the making?
  13. Visit  traumaRUs profile page
    1
    All I can say is that the ANCC "recommended" the BSN as an entry level for RNs 30 years ago and that didn't come to pass. I'm not worried about needing a doctorate in my lifetime - lol.
    rnsrgr8t likes this.
  14. Visit  t2krookie profile page
    3
    Quote from sugah britches
    i know that many of the experienced np's feel the dnp is just a money racket by universities. there may be some truth to this. but it seem to me, with the increasing challenges of healthcare and the constant berate-ment of nps by mds and do's, the dnp program has the potential to counter some of the criticisms. i believe it is an evolution in response to the need to keep up with the growing bodies of knowledge and an attempt to respond to the assertions that nps do not provide safe patient care. there is an increasing trend for other healthcare professions to require doctorates. in order to keep a footing and be view as a legitimate profession (in the eyes of counterparts) the dnp may prove to be a necessity.


    i seriously doubt that the content of the dnp tracks that are currently available (majority of) will gain us any more respect by physicians. most of the dnp programs i have reviewed are very weak on clinical competence and heavy on the research and theory aspect, as well as the business side of healthcare. once i finish my msn, i will definitely wait until these schools get their act together and offer a truly "clinical" focused dnp curriculum. i have no doubt that a well focused dnp program would enhance our acceptance by the medical community, but the current trend looks to be more of an effort to increase the pool of teaching qualified nurses rather than a push for greater competency in healing. as to when it will be required, others had already pointed out that bsn had been a dream entry point for decades. in the current shortage of providers, it is ludicrous to believe they would hobble nps with such a requirement. we can't prove our worth as providers, if we have a tiny number of nps actually out there.
    Ellen NP, greatgirl123, and MUUGUZI like this.
  15. Visit  llg profile page
    2
    Quote from traumaRUs
    All I can say is that the ANCC "recommended" the BSN as an entry level for RNs 30 years ago and that didn't come to pass. I'm not worried about needing a doctorate in my lifetime - lol.
    One thing is different between the DNP issue and the BSN entry into practice issue.

    The vast majority of schools that prepare APN's are actively involved in the organizations (such as AACN) that support the DNP. Also, those schools can see the DNP as an opportunity to teach more courses, bring in more revenue, and prepare more doctorally-prepared nurses to be available to teach (more teachers = lower salaries for teachers). So ... it's in the schools' best interest to have flourishing DNP programs.

    If the majority of schools switch their APN programs from Master's level to DNP level ... the change will happen over time as fewer and fewer MSN-only APN's exist. As the DNP grads become the majority, they will make the rules for advanced practice.

    With the BSN entry-level issue, the numbers are different. The schools producing ADN's and Diploma's are numerous (more numorous?) and produce large numbers of graduates each year -- producing lots of voters to pressure legislators to keep the ADN and Diploma programs alive. Those schools and consituencies are also well-represented on the Boards of Nursing that govern the practice of nursing. And finally, hospitals want to keep a large supply of ADN grads handy because they keep nursing wages down. So ... there are a lot of people who exert a lot of political pressure to maintain the status quo.

    The numbers and the political influence with the 2 issues are very different. I don't have a crystal ball ... but the DNP train seems to be leaving the station as more and more programs convert from MSN to DNP. Fortunately for those existing APN's, these things usually take several years to play out -- when this sort of change occurs, existing people in a role are usually grandfathered in.
    MC1906 and elkpark like this.


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