DNP vs MD

Specialties Doctoral

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What is the difference between DNP and MD? How long does it take to become a DNP if you already have BSN degree? I thought nurses had problems with docs, but one day I visited the student doctor website and I was surprised to see how many student docs, docs, pharmacists were against the DNP program/degree and some did not have any respect for nurses. Many had horrible things to say about nursing and nurses, they said it's easy to become a nurse and not a lot of training is required. One person said, "lets face it, doctors can survive without nurses and they can have a resident do what nurses do, but if the hospital takes the doctors out the nurses will struggle and the hospital will die."

Do doctors forget that nurses are the largest group of healthcare? Doctors are never there to see the condition of their patients, they don't know if the meds are doing what they are supposed to do. Nurses are the ones that know the patients better and they let the docs know what is going on.

Some said," if nurses want to be called doctors they should go to medical school and not attending a new program DNP. To be a doctor they need more years of school." I swear some people think that years of school predict intelligence, years of school make you a better nurse, doctor, etc. Really, what's the difference in school years between DNP and MD ?

It's becoming a big war b/w nurses and doctors. Let's face it, one can't work without the other. They both need each others help.

It isn't about trying to make comparisons between medical school and APRN school.

Where it matters the most is comparing patient outcomes between physicians and APRNs, because if medical school was the pinnacle of medical education physician outcomes would be better than any other type of provider which they are not and are often less than when patients get their care from APRNs.

Nailed it.

what fluid dynamic law explains why aneurysms worsen over time

pressure/volume/flow on ventilators- please explain the physical laws behind this.

science behind the doppler ultrasound, CT scan, MRI, X-rays, etc.

why do demyelinating diseases cause the symptoms they do

how do sodium, calcium, and potassium channel blockers work.

Answer all of these without some understanding of physics and ill put my tail between my legs and bow out.

thats not even touching the surface.

Without knowledge of physics we wouldn't have any of this stuff, and there is some need of physical law knowledge for general practice. So physics does help the patient, and everybody, greatly.

many nurses just don't know what they don't know. sigh........

I'm glad you are the law enforcement officer for my factual based comment. There was nothing false about what I said in fact I find many errors in your argument like the fact that "pre-med classes are more difficult than anything nursing has to offer". ARE YOU KIDDING ME? I would take any hard science course any day of the year over nursing theory. Throw me in a chemistry class- I'll swim. Throw me into this opinion based choose the more right answer stuff and I flail. Nursing is clinical and pre-med is hard science. Very different. So really your opinion is rather laughable to me. HAHA you are so funny. Want to know what else is funny? The fact that physics has NOTHING to do with general medicine? So that's great they take physics but please enlighten me to how that benefits the patient.

Are you a nurse practitioner or NP hopeful? IF the latter, I think you may find that NP education can be somewhat lacking. I clinically precept at a well known and respectable regional university and have had several recent students that were in their final semester and could not do simple diagnostic skills like fully interpret a CBC or differentiate hyponatremia or tell me what an acute phase reactant is. These are pretty basic diagnostic abilities and are purely knowledge deficiencies. Some of these students have graduated and are now doing fine as NPs. However, the difference is that a physician (even a MS3) could have answered any of my questions about labs and basic diagnostic tools. This has to do with the caliber of medical education and time spent learning these skills.

I agree with the former poster that it is absurd to compare the quality and length of education between a nurse practitioner (or PA) and a physician. You cannot argue that 4 years of fulltime medical education with rotations occupying 80hrs per week and requiring a student to rotate through every medical specialty and see tens of thousands of cases before graduation can be compared to a 2-2.5 year NP program that can be completed while working full time and needs 500+ clinical hours.

I am not bashing my profession. I think there are plenty of phenomenal NPs out there who can hold their own clinically. There was just a study I read that showed NPs have a lower rate of hospitalization than MD counterparts - However, looking at the data I wonder about acuity of these patients. Fewer Hospitalizations for Diabetics Seen by Nurse Practitioners

The reality is that physicians are much better prepared for clinical practice when they exit medical school. NPs are given a foundation during school and still must build upon that when they enter practice. A newly graduated NP that feels they have parity with a physician is likely an over-confident provider and one who will never recognize the many mistakes they are making or be insightful enough to ask for help.

Well, most of the people that seem to think an NP education is equal to a physicians still have yet to go through his or her program. Not quite sure where they get their information from. People fail to see reason when they are consumed by their own profession. Egocentrism is strong in our DNA, but if only people would realize that fact so they can compensate for this bias. I have been an np for a while, and while we can learn to provide very good patient care, at time of graduation, it is nearly impossible to hold the same level as expertise as an actual doctor. Nursing theory isn't difficult, it is mostly opinion based and highly biased, and also a sad attempt to legitimize our profession. I have not seem many advancements that have benefited human-kind from nursing theory, but I have seen many over-inflated nursing instructors become very proud with their ability to confuse students with non-sense. I am very disappointed in the fact many nurses are unable to see the deficit of knowledge they maintain.

I would like to see the research behind quality of care and outcomes of patients managed by physicians and nurse practitioners. What are the other independent variables at play? This is a very broad statement, and obviously only counts in the primary care setting.

I would guarantee that the level of subtle diagnoses missed by NPs would greatly outnumber physicians. Management of hypertension, diabetes, and other common diseases probably can be managed equally by nurse practitioners, but unfortunately these only scrape the surface. Maybe once some of these masters level students enter the real world they will be enlighten to their knowledge deficit. One must also take into consideration that many complex patients are often taken care of by the physician in the practice. In rural areas this may not always be true since there may not be a physician, but I would question the integrity of a study performed by a nurse practitioner, since one with any sense would know it is probably biased.

Kudos to the nurse practitioners that are aware of our somewhat deficient training during our programs, you will do great since as the above poster stated, they will be inclined to seek additional knowledge.

To the ones who believe they are know it alls, God have mercy on your patients souls as you slowly destroy them without them having the slightest hint at the lack of quality care they are receiving.

Specializes in Anesthesia.
Medscape: Medscape Access. Quality of care literature review for NP care.
Came across this thread but I agree with madglee in that there is no reason a DNP and MD should not be considered and compensated equally. As far as I'm concerned they are nearly on par for education...

MD= 4 years any undergrad degree (may be science related/may not) + 4 years of medical school + 4 years residency (assuming PCP)+ boards= practicing physician with a total of 8 years of medical related education/residency

DNP= 4 years for BSN (many people work while obtaining their RN-BSN too) + 1-2 years of experience in given field (usually) + 4 years for DNP (which again many nurses work during) + boards = DNP

So simply because I chose/choose to not give my life to medicine for 80 hours a week for 3 years for NO PAY and instead worked and went to school, I am somehow not equal... I do think MD/OD's have their place and have a different perspective which is valuable but to say they are greater than a DNP is faulty. Thankfully many states are realizing this and laws for greater autonomy if not full autonomy are rapidly being implemented. After all it's the providers license that will be on the line, so let the professionals make their own decisions.

Seriously! What kind of reasoning is that?

Idk but she probably used nursing theory to come to that conclusion. I might go fly an airline on that theory also. I mean if I crash it's just my license right....

i think bee is a troll. Which I like trolls so kudos for stirring the pot lol. I wouldn't take her seriously though.

That at article is pretty biased also. I mean all the authors are nurses so I'm sure the 500 other studies done to compare didn't turn out positive for aprns and they were discarded

Specializes in Family Nurse Practitioner.

That at article is pretty biased also. I mean all the authors are nurses so I'm sure the 500 other studies done to compare didn't turn out positive for aprns and they were discarded

I'd be more inclined to accept the articles I have seen about NP outcomes if they weren't all "nursing research". Some of I have seen were only surveys asking opinions of the quality of NPs work.

Either way my guess is those positive outcomes will be markedly reduced over the next decade as everyone and their Mother graduates with minimal nursing experience and starts prescribing to innocent bystanders.

It is rather confusing isnt it jules. Nursing elites are infatuated with being the best yet they decrease educational standards.

Specializes in Family Nurse Practitioner.
It is rather confusing isnt it jules. Nursing elites are infatuated with being the best yet they decrease educational standards.

That the boards of nursing accept all these schools popping up with little to no admission standards is shocking and disappointing.

That the boards of nursing accept all these schools popping up with little to no admission standards is shocking and disappointing.

We are still better than physicians because our research studies say so... Sarcasm!

The title "Doctor" is not exclusive for physicians. It is an educational level/degree. It is used by various professions.

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