2015 DNP

Specialties Doctoral

Published

I am wondering if anyone has heard any updates.

Everything I keep seeing online from the AACN is "recommendation", "strongly encouraged", "highly suggested".

I have yet to see anything, that says, "Look, either you graduate and pass your boards by January 1, 2015 or you can put the MSN you have in back of the closet and start working on your DNP, because the MSN isn't good enough anymore to sit for national certification."

There are many of us, including myself, that will be finishing probably in 2013 or 2014...now, we would all like to think that we would pass our certification the first go-round, but we all know that may or may not happen for some of us.

Example: You graduate in June 2014 with your MSN and it is January, 2015, you still cannot pass your certification exam...does that mean you have to go back to school or you cannot practice?

I have seen some colleges that have completely phased out MSN programs but I have seen MANY that have not...that makes me wonder if it is not going to be a "go" like they are claiming that it is.

I would love to hear from those that keep up with this sort of thing...that may have more insight.

Specializes in NICU, Post-partum.
*** The idea that the degree a nurse holds is an indicator of the nurses expertise is absurd. I am the Rapid Response Nurse for my hospital. I have years of high acuity critical care, level I trauma, transport, and ER experience. CCRN, CEN and CRNI certifications. I am an ACLS instructor and have years of paramedic experience as well. That anyone would assume that the new grad with a direct entry MSN has more expertise than I do cause I do not have a masters is ridiculous.

Someone with a new grad MSN from a direct-entry program, I am assuming, wouldn't be on a transport them, etc..unless properly trained, correct?

Specializes in NICU, Post-partum.
Yeah, you're just so open-minded and not arrogant about your abilities that you think NPs are better than MDs.

Please post where I stated that....and by the way, thanks for the nasty comment.

And what do you think residency is? A classroom setting? Why do you think residents work 30 hour shifts? How many patients do you think medical students on clerkships follow at a time?

Oh, do you even WORK in a hospital setting? I know what a residency is...and they may be following 20 patients, but they also may not even see a patient directly for a couple of days and I have NEVER seen one spend more than 10 minutes in the room. They never read what the nurses write and they walk around with their little ipod Touches expecting that device to give them all the answers.

Are there great NPs with decades of experience who are wonderful assets to the team? Absolutely. But you're kidding yourself if you think the plethora of recent online NP programs and direct entry NP programs are even remotely equivalent to the MD-residency combination, let alone superior.

Again, please post where I said that they ALL were. Are you denying there are bad MD's?

NP graduates from these newer programs today are nowhere in the same league as the previous generation of critical care nurses who went to NP programs after a decade of experience.

No NP program EVER required a decade of experience...please copy and post evidence that any of them did prior to applying.

Yet they have the audacity to feel superior to those MSNs because they took a couple fluff classes in elementary statistics and have a degree with the word Doctorate in it.

I am not even going to address this because obviously, by this post you have CLEARLY shown that you have no idea of what any of these degrees entails or have viewed the curriculum of any program. Otherwise, you would know how ridiculous this statement is. :lol2:

And BTW, I think Illinois just made it illegal for DNPs to call themselves Doctors in the clinical setting.

Alcohol used to be illegal during the prohibition also....this is physicians making this call, thus, confusing the public even more instead of educating them. AMA forks out big $$$ for lobbyists...or didn't you know that?

Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Someone with a new grad MSN from a direct-entry program, I am assuming, wouldn't be on a transport them, etc..unless properly trained, correct?

*** Unlikely in transport. At my hospital you will see them in the ICUs and ER. Well that's not really true as my hospital has stopped hiring direct entry master grads into speciality areas and the experience we have had with them.

They used to be hired into the critical care nurse residency program and they would be working along side much more experienced nures in any of the critical care units plus ER & PACU.

Specializes in ER; CCT.
I only want to know one thing if you will oblige me. Was what you learned in the DNP degree program useful to you as a practicing nurse practitioner? More specifically, did it help you be a better nurse practitioner?

I look forward to your response.

Mark

The DNP added a new dimension to my practice for sure. Duke taught me how to access, interpret and translate evidence. Simple enough concepts, but here is what I was able to do with what many describe as "DNP Fluff courses":

1. I created the first police nurse practitioner program in the United States. Through Duke, I used my capstone experience to formulate an IRB approved study to evaluate the effectiveness of one component of the outreach program, which is being published August 3 in The Journal of Community Health Nursing. Once, where there was nothing--now there is a tangible program in place that is helping thousands in the community--all through direct implementation of what I learned through the DNP program. To date, the police nurse practitioner program has now provided screening and direct health care services for over 10,000 individuals within my community--all at no cost to the agency or the taxpayer.

2. I created a special health chair position with the NAACP where I developed a free out patient clinic program for those vulnerable populations who have absolutely no access to health care services. Even though not one physician I contacted was willing to help or provide any assistance whatosever, I used my DNP training to craft, design and implement a program that has provided more than 100 patient care primary care visits over the last few months. Now, the local chapter has procured its own clinic site to expand the services provided by my project developed within my DNP training.

3. Even though the DNP is not the research arm of nursing, there is a heavy emphasis on the research process. I now feel I have the tools to conduct research in the context of evaluating and translating evidence. As with the study I did at Duke, this will translate into improving outcomes across my practice.

So, to answer your question, I would say that through my DNP training, I was not trained how to diagnose cystitis any better than within my MSN program. I wasn't provided with any additional training on how to manage diabetes or lipidemia or provide better birth control counseling, but I would say that the impact I have had on the lives of those in my community was pretty good.

Specializes in Med-Surg, Telemetry, Oncology.

WOW, DR.TAMMY!

Thank you for providing so much valuable INSIGHT on how a DNP contributed to your practice! VERY INSPIRATIONAL!

I also enjoy research and would now consider obtaining a DNP. I'm currently a MSN-FNP student that will begin my program part-time, THIS AUGUST. I've always wondered what a DNP would bring to an already practicing NP. Your contribution was enlightening and informative. THANK YOU FOR SHARING!

I'm Dr. Smith, I am your Cardiology resident.

I'm Dr. Jones, I am your Anesthesiologist.

I'm Dr. Doe, I am your General Surgeon

I'm Dr. Patel, I am a Nurse Practitioner

"One of these things is not like the others, one of these things just doesn't belong."

It is nurses, who stay with the patient for 12 hours a day and see, first-hand, how the subtle early signs of a disease process/condition begin to show.

The vast majority of NP's have that nursing experience before they go to NP school.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just curious -- do you have a source that documents that it is (still) the case that the "vast majority" (or even a small majority -- any majority at all :)) of individuals going into NP programs are experienced RNs? Even with the incredible boom in direct-entry programs for non-nurses and the growing number of schools that take new grads with no experience? Sure, it used to be the case that nearly everyone who pursued NP (or any advanced practice specialty) education was an RN with years of experience -- but, with the number of people going into nursing nowadays who are only interested in being APNs, I doubt that that's still true.

I hear lots of people on this site (and other places) defend the idea of NPs, or independent practice for NPs, with the ol' "but they have years of clinical experience before they even go to grad school" line, but it is often coming from people who have no idea how much nursing education has changed in the last 10-15 years (please note that I'm not saying you're necessarily one of those people -- I have no idea), and I have no idea whether there are actual numbers anywhere to support that.

Nurse Tammy - your DNP from Duke has given you the skills to create a program and a chaired position, and has taught you how to do research.

If this is what you wanted to do with your career, I'm curious why you chose a DNP degree versus a degree in health care administration?

Specializes in NICU, Post-partum.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just curious -- do you have a source that documents that it is (still) the case that the "vast majority" (or even a small majority -- any majority at all :)) of individuals going into NP programs are experienced RNs? Even with the incredible boom in direct-entry programs for non-nurses and the growing number of schools that take new grads with no experience? Sure, it used to be the case that nearly everyone who pursued NP (or any advanced practice specialty) education was an RN with years of experience -- but, with the number of people going into nursing nowadays who are only interested in being APNs, I doubt that that's still true.

I hear lots of people on this site (and other places) defend the idea of NPs, or independent practice for NPs, with the ol' "but they have years of clinical experience before they even go to grad school" line, but it is often coming from people who have no idea how much nursing education has changed in the last 10-15 years (please note that I'm not saying you're necessarily one of those people -- I have no idea), and I have no idea whether there are actual numbers anywhere to support that.

I understand what you are asking, but think about it.

Very rarely do I see, even on Allnurses, post that they "just" graduated from nursing school and are going to immediately apply to an NP program. Some only work for a few years, but most of them do work first.

I personally, have only met ONE and I know a ton of NP's.

We have 8 in our unit currently going to NP school and every one of them had a minimum of 2 years of experience before going to NP school.

No, I do not have documentation, but think about the common sense level of what you are suggesting, which would be the opposite...that the MAJORITY of NP's never worked as a floor nurse before getting their NP.

There are thousands of NP's in this country...I would bet a year's salary the MAJORITY had experience before getting their MSN...I never said vast experience, I was simply suggesting SOME.

I am currently in an RN-BSN program...out of 38 students, I had been out of school for one year before I started and I am the ONLY one in the class that had that small amount of experience.

So many years and steps to go through to become a DNP, I would choose medical school instead, seriously what's the point of becoming DNP!?

Specializes in FNP.

To obtain the terminal degree in my field, not another one. ;) Good luck to you Healthstar, I think you should choose medical school if that is where your heart lies. My heart has led me differently.

Specializes in FNP.
Nurse Tammy - your DNP from Duke has given you the skills to create a program and a chaired position, and has taught you how to do research.

If this is what you wanted to do with your career, I'm curious why you chose a DNP degree versus a degree in health care administration?

I'm not Dr. Tammy, and my career goals are somewhat different. However, if I may hazard a guess, it could be that Tammy does not want to limit herself, and enjoys the NP role in a variety of domains.

That is part of the beauty of this career path, the opportunity to really evolve and actualize as you really want to! Tammy has set such a great example for us all. I am so proud of her, and her outstanding contributions to Nursing.

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