Nurses fired for refusing flu vaccine

allnurses Guide · Jan 8, 2013

Heres some:
DeLong G 2011, ‘A Positive Association found between Autism Prevalence and Childhood Vaccination uptake across the U.S. Population’ Journal of Toxicology and Environmental Health, Part A, vol. 74, no. 14, pp.903-916.
Geier D A, King & Geier M R 2009, ‘Mitochondrial dysfunction, impaired oxidative-reduction activity, degeneration, and death in human neuronal and fetal cells induced by low-level exposure to thimerosal and other metal compounds’ Toxicological & Environmental Chemistry, vol. 23, pp.1-15.
Tomljenovic L & Shaw C A 2011, ‘Aluminum Vaccine Adjuvants: Are they Safe?’ Current Medicinal Chemistry, vol. 18, no. 17, pp.2630-2637.
Tomljenovic L & Shaw C A 2011, ‘Do aluminum vaccine adjuvants contribute to the rising prevalence of autism?’ Journal of Inorganic Biochemistry, vol. 105, no. 11, pp.1489-1499.

Have you read these articles? I would be curious how you interpret them, assuming you must have a background in biochem or toxicology. My expertise as a clinician is (unfortunately) not in biochem and toxicology. I did read through them, and while the associations are interesting, none of the studies are clinical in nature. The only vaccines containing aluminum in current use at the variates of DTaP and HiB, both of which provide immunity to fatal communicable diseases.

DeLong reported a statistical association (not a clinical study) that did not imply causation and recommended clinical studies be conducted, a number were and no relationship was found.

Tomljenovic & Shaw presented a summary of potential mechanisms of toxicity followed by a non-clinical study of association between aluminum-containing vaccines and increased rates of ASD, but were unable to prove causation though they attempted to imply causation via Hills.

Garethaus · Jan 8, 2013

BostonFNP

the thing is, I would like to see a lot more comprehensive studies examining vaccine toxicity causing neurodevelopmental disorders. These need to be studies I can trust as well.

I don't have a background in biochem or toxicology. I am reading to sort out my suspicions. But what I am reading indicates that there is a problem with the manufacture or contents of vaccines. There is a lot of disinformation out there. On both sides of the vax issue.

Unfortunately there seems to be a tendency for medical authorities saying essentially "Theres no problem. Vaccines are safe" without real investigation.

Long term side effects of vaccines are not being investigated properly. Hence this is why I am in discourse here to hopefully exchange information with professionals, to get a number of their differing views. Very helpful so far.

PalmHarborMom · Jan 8, 2013

Garethaus- Parents of children with Autism (me being one of them) want to find something/anything that they can say caused the Autism. There are still people out there that make nasty comments about our children and our parenting. Having someone or something to blame would be great. Unfortunately, as of yet, there are no reliable studies that indicate a cause of Autism.

As for there the long term side effects of vaccines. There is plenty of evidence that they do a ton of good. How many kids have your heard of getting Polio in this country?

It is evident that you are set in your views. That is fine. Please try to remember though, when reading to "sort out your suspicions" it is best to read studies on both sides of the fence. I am also a nursing student and the evidence just is not there to gain support for vaccines causing autism.

Garethaus · Jan 8, 2013

PalmHarbourMom - the thing is, I am not set in my views. Show me arguments enough to erase reasonable doubt and I will change my view. My goal is directed toward patient health. And I certainly have reason for reasonable doubt regarding vaccines. It seems every day I am reading about major problems affecting lots of people related to vaccine side effects. Telling me that evidence is not there is not opening your eyes.

CrunchRN, ADN, RN · Jan 8, 2013

Kareylea and hawkfdc--i enjoyed reading your posts and I am in total agreement with you.
I was the poster that stated this was tied to money. I worked in a major teaching facility until Dec 2012. I was part of administration via utilization/case management and reimbursement enhancement. This is out I found out the real reason that the shot was mandated.
Mark my words, the day will come that this mandatory vaccination situation will change. Meanwhile research, research,research so that we can present the best factual information to our patients and others.
Perhaps a better vaccine will be developed at some point.

I am interested to go beyond this. I do not disagree with this at all. Of course it is all about the money.

I wonder why you think the Gov't is pushing it? Save money with lowering health cost from flu or?

I think it should be a choice and I happily take mine very year. However, I don't think it should be forced on anyone to protect patients unless every single person who goes inside the facility is forced to have one. Only then does it really make any sense as a protective measure.

olddragger · Jan 8, 2013

In response to the above poster. Not only is the Government pushing Influenza vaccinations on the hcw they are also threatening acute care facilities with reduced medicare/medicaid reimbursement if their staff are not vaccinated. Acute care facilities have to have a certain percentage of staff vaccinated by a certain year to meet the CMS set goals.

I will give you a more ridiculous example of how this has gotten so out of control. I worked for a community teaching hospital. Yesterday a Dr friend of mine told me that he had to have the flu shot in order to attend a Hospital Board meeting that was being held off champus!

CrunchRN, ADN, RN · Jan 8, 2013

Wow. Olddragger, but why do you think the CMS et al are forcing this issue? What underlies their instituting this whole push?

HM-8404, BSN, RN · Jan 8, 2013

Wow. Olddragger, but why do you think the CMS et al are forcing this issue? What underlies their instituting this whole push?

I'm going to guess it is either to make money or save money. As far as I know the CMS does not manufacture or distribute the flu vaccine. So, I am going to assume it is to save money on health care costs. But what do I know? Nobody confers with me. :)

TiffyRN, BSN, PhD · Jan 9, 2013

Wow. Olddragger, but why do you think the CMS et al are forcing this issue? What underlies their instituting this whole push?

Crunch,

This is a wonderfully revealing question. What possible motivation could CMS have to force this issue? I do believe that knowing that CMS has this regulation definitely reveals why hospitals are getting so strict with enforcing this policy. It's almost always about the money. But then why is CMS interesting in this? Generally they have a money motivation for their reimbursement policies and how do you think that requiring staff vaccinations would affect CMS' costs of caring for their clients?

olddragger · Jan 9, 2013

[h=3]CMS ISSUES FINAL RULE FOR FIRST YEAR OF HOSPITAL VALUE-BASED PURCHASING PROGRAM[/h]BACKGROUND: Hospital payments account for the largest share of Medicare spending, and Medicare is the largest single payer for hospital services. In 2009, more than 7 million Medicare beneficiaries experienced more than 12.4 million inpatient hospitalizations. One in seven Medicare patients will experience some “adverse” event such as a preventable illness or injury while in the hospital. One in three Medicare beneficiaries who leave the hospital today will be back in the hospital within a month. Every year, as many as 98,000 Americans die from errors in hospital care.

In addition to adding to the suffering of patients and their caregivers, these errors lead to significant unnecessary health care spending. Medicare spent an estimated $4.4 billion in 2009 to care for patients who had been harmed in the hospital, and readmissions cost Medicare another $26 billion.

The Hospital VBP program is a major step forward in a longstanding effort by CMS to forge a closer link between Medicare’s payment systems and improvements in the quality and delivery of health care in all settings, including inpatient hospital stays. It is one of many reforms included in the Affordable Care Act that are changing how Medicare pays hospitals for their services.

CMS has previously undertaken a number of initiatives to transform Medicare from a passive payer of claims to a prudent purchaser of health care services. This includes implementing the Hospital Inpatient Quality Reporting (Hospital IQR) program (previously known as the “Reporting Hospital Quality Data for Annual Payment Update” or RHQDAPU program) which reduces by 2.0 percentage points the applicable percentage increase for hospitals that do not participate or do not successfully report data on measures at a time and in a manner specified by the Secretary. Since 2005, CMS has published each participating hospital’s measure rates on the Hospital Compare website athttp://www.hospitalcompare.hhs.gov. However, unlike the Hospital VBP program, the Hospital IQR program is a pay-for-reporting program, and does not tie payment directly to a hospital’s reported measure rate.

In future years, CMS will be implementing other provisions of the Affordable Care Act that are designed to improve care while reducing costs. For example, beginning in 2013, hospitals will receive a payment reduction if they have excess 30-day readmissions for patients with heart attacks, heart failure, and PNEUMONIA. By 2015, a portion of Medicare payments to most hospitals will also be linked to whether they meaningfully use information technology to communicate within the hospital to deliver better, safer, more coordinated care. Also beginning in 2015, hospitals with certain hospital acquired conditions will receive additional payment reductions from Medicare.

END.

In reference to the capitalized pneumonia above-- Influenza and pneumonia are classified as the same by CMS.

Higher influenza Vaccination Coverage among Healthcare Personnel is one of the indicators that signifies "improved quality of care". CMS believes increased hcw influenza vaccinations will decrease the amount of patients that need to be treated for influenza. So far I dont believe that approach has worked very well?

This is part of the same package that is reducing payments to acute care facilities for readmission's with in 30 days ( related diagnosis) and nosocomical infections.

This means that the readmission within 30 days after d/c of the non complient diabetic or dialysis patients will not be paid for. It also means that if that chronic foley patient that develops an UTI while in the hospital will have a reduced payment.

It's all about the money.

CrunchRN, ADN, RN · Jan 9, 2013

Sooo, flu vaccination of caregivers reduces health care costs by reducing complications in vulnerable patients?

If so then it does seem like a reasonable expectation to have nurses take the flu vaccine.

Ok, let me have it!

morte, LPN, LVN · Jan 9, 2013

If their supposition were correct. The new study quoted in the NYT casts much doubt. Also, remember, OSHA is NOT behind mandatory flu vaccines for HCWs.

Sooo, flu vaccination of caregivers reduces health care costs by reducing complications in vulnerable patients?
If so then it does seem like a reasonable expectation to have nurses take the flu vaccine.
Ok, let me have it!