Is your Facility 'forcing' you to get the Flu Vaccine?

Anna Flaxis, BSN, RN · Oct 15, 2012

Despite the protestations, employer-mandated vaccinations are NOT a civil rights issue.

That's arguable.

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Oct 15, 2012

I apoligize for offending, but the flu shot has been around since the 1940s, and it is still believed by experts that the benefits outweigh the risks. How many of the meds that get pulled each year have been around for 70 years? Each year thousands of people die from the flu and flu related illness. If you don't want the flu vaccine that is your right, but it is not your right to potentially spread a potentially deadly illness to vulnerable populations.

I think this is everyone's point......the hospitals requiring it takes away that right. Here is conflicting evidence on whether or not vaccines are hurtful. I am a DES daughter. Diethylstilbestrol (DES) a synthetic estrogen that was given for YEARS that was "SAFE" My mother was told they were vitamin shots to keep her baby.....ME

Diethylstilbestrol is a synthetic nonsteroidal estrogen that was used to prevent miscarriage and other pregnancy complications between 1938 and 1971 in the United States. In 1971, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration issued a warning about the use of diethylstilbestrol during pregnancy after a relationship between exposure to this synthetic estrogen and the development of clear cell adenocarcinoma of the lady parts and cervix was found in young women whose mothers had taken diethylstilbestrol while they were pregnant. Although diethylstilbestrol has not been given to pregnant women in the United States for more than 30 years, its effects continue to be seen. Women who took diethylstilbestrol during pregnancy have a slightly higher risk of breast cancer than the general population and therefore should be encouraged to have regular mammography. Women who were exposed to diethylstilbestrol in utero may have structural reproductive tract anomalies, an increased infertility rate, and poor pregnancy outcomes.Diethylstilbestrol Exposure - May 15, 2004 - American Family Physician

So.....I am not very reassured when the Government, the CDC, the FDA tell me about the safety of ANY DRUG!

Many of us still remember the "safe!!!! Swine flu vaccines that cause people to become ill.....it took MONTHS if not YEARS for the FDA/CDC to admit there had been a problem.

What happened in 1976 with GBS and the swine flu vaccine?
Scientists first reported a suspected link between GBS and vaccinations in 1976, during a national campaign to vaccinate people against a swine flu virus. The investigation found that vaccine recipients had a higher risk for GBS than those who were not vaccinated (about 1 additional case occurred per 100,000 people vaccinated). Given this association, and the fact that the swine flu disease was limited, the vaccination program was stopped.
Since then, numerous studies have been done to evaluate if other flu vaccines were associated with GBS. In most studies, no association was found, but two studies suggested that approximately 1 additional person out of 1 million vaccinated people may be at risk for GBS associated with the seasonal influenza vaccine.
Why did some people develop GBS after they received the 1976 swine flu vaccine?
The Institute of Medicine (IOM) conducted a thorough scientific review in 2003 and concluded that people who received the 1976 swine influenza vaccine had a slight increased risk for developing GBS. Scientists have multiple theories on why this increased risk may have occurred, but the exact reason for this association remains unknown. CDC H1N1 Flu | General Questions and Answers on Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS)

Just like when "they" refused to admit AGENT ORANGE caused illness and said the air at ground zero on 9/11 posed no health risk.....and is only now admitting there was a problem(Duh...). It took 10 years for the government to decide it was a wrok related injury.

The James L. Zadroga 9/11 Health & Compensation Act, signed into law by President Obama in early 2011, establishes the World Trade Center (WTC) Health Program. It ensures that those affected by 9/11 continue to receive monitoring and treatment services for 9/11-related health problems through at least 2015.

As a sufferer of a debilitating auto-immune disorder....I guess I am skeptical what benefit that the bombardment of ALL of these vaccins have been for me.......have they had an impact on my immune system that caused it to start attacking me?

I don't think anyone will admit it if it did........JMHO

madwife2002, BSN, RN · Oct 15, 2012

Interesting arguments from both sides, I feel that it should be a choice like everything else in life but since my company have mandated the masks and staff are going to wear a small star on their ID badge-those who do not get vaccinated and don't wear a mask will be written up.

I think it is impossible to wear a mask within 6 feet of all patient contact- so I got the vaccine. If they had not brought out this nw rule I doubt I would have been bothered to get the shot.

I speak with an English Accent and people just do not understand me from behind the mask

Peterjoy93 · Oct 15, 2012

I think it will be interesting when dietary, housekeeping, maintenance and volunteers all start walking around with masks. What happens when the patient leaves the room and comes within 6 feet of hospital employees who normally don't come in close contact?

missnurse01, MSN, RN · Oct 15, 2012

on some units within our medical system, mine included, we are required to mask if anywhere but the breakroom/bathroom. So even not in pt rooms, if you are in the hallway, at the pyxis, etc, required to mask.

EmmaZ06 · Oct 15, 2012

Dr. Hugh Fudenberg has had his medical license revoked http://www.casewatch.org/board/med/fudenberg/1995order.shtml

Dr. Boyd Haley attempted to put a chelator into a pill and market it as a "dietary supplement" without any evidence of safety, when the FDA questioned him he pulled it rather than come up with the evidence. FDA warns maker of autism supplement - UPI.com

As far as the mercury issue, get your flu shot from a single dose vile and there won't be any thimerosal CDC - Seasonal Influenza (Flu) - Questions & Answers - Thimerosal and 2012-2013 Seasonal Flu Vaccines

You can find an "expert" promoting just about any opinion you have if you google it, which is why it is so important to consider the source.

this comment was in response to the articles posted by Brightfuture4us, but for some reason they didn't get quoted in the reply. Dr. Hugh Fudenberg and Dr. Boyd Haley were the doctors linking the flu shot to alzheimer's.

GitanoRN, BSN, MSN, RN · Oct 15, 2012

Enlightening...

EmmaZ06 · Oct 15, 2012

You have the right not to get the shot, but unless you physician is telling you that it is contraindicated, the facility has the right to say that you can not work there if you refuse. I can see a person with an autoimmune disease being nervous about a flu shot, and it is something that should be discussed with you physician. If your physician agrees that you should not get the shot then the facility should not make you; however as I stated earlier if there are no contraindications healthcare workers should get the shot.

I am actually a strong proponent of treating the whole patient, and I don't think that modern medicine has found all the answers, BUT the flu shot has been tested over and over on large populations. It took approximately 30 years to find that DES was harmful, but they DID find out it was harmful. The flu shot has been around more than twice as long and they have yet to find a concrete reason not to get the shot. GBS risk is slightly increased but the benefits of vaccination outweigh the risks.

Even if it only reduces you chance of spreading the flu by a third, that is a third less chance you have of spreading a potentially deadly illness to a patient.

Brightfuture4us · Oct 15, 2012

Although he may have eventually fallen from grace...it does not negate his prior research. He was twice nominated for a nobel prize. These particular articles were offered as food for thought. You are correct in considering the source...that applies to BOTH sides of a debate. A single dose with "no" mercury still has aluminum...I would say for anyone being forced to get the vaccine this is probably a better option but still not the answer IMO and my understanding is it is harder to come by. I am fortunate enough to be adding nursing as a second career and can very carefully choose who I work for and what they will require of me. Not everyone is as lucky. Sadly...no time for debate this morning as I have an appointment with my alternative medicine physician :). Oh how I love that man...even though he is NOT vaccinated lol. Have a beautiful day EmmaZ

EmmaZ06 · Oct 15, 2012

Although he may have eventually fallen from grace...it does not negate his prior research. He was twice nominated for a nobel prize. These particular articles were offered as food for thought. You are correct in considering the source...that applies to BOTH sides of a debate. A single dose with "no" mercury still has aluminum...I would say for anyone being forced to get the vaccine this is probably a better option but still not the answer IMO and my understanding is it is harder to come by. I am fortunate enough to be adding nursing as a second career and can very carefully choose who I work for and what they will require of me. Not everyone is as lucky. Sadly...no time for debate this morning as I have an appointment with my alternative medicine physician :). Oh how I love that man...even though he is NOT vaccinated lol. Have a beautiful day EmmaZ

There is no aluminum in the seasonal influenza vaccine. It should not be that difficult to find the mercury free flu vaccine since they only put the thimerosal in multi-dose vials.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf

If my doctor was telling me not to take the flu shot because it contains mercury and aluminum, I would consider another doctor, because they were either lying or uninformed about the options. I am not trying to be offensive, but there is no debate about the aluminum, it is simply not there. Have a wonderful day :)

Brightfuture4us · Oct 15, 2012

[TABLE=width: 70%]

[TR]

Type of IngredientExamplesPurpose[/TR]

[TR]

Preservatives[TD]Thimerosal (only in multi-dose vials of flu vaccine)[/TD]

[TD]To prevent contamination[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Adjuvants[TD]Aluminum salts[/TD]

[TD]To help stimulate the body’s response to the antigens[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Stabilizers[TD]Sugars, gelatin[/TD]

[TD]To keep the vaccine potent during transportation and storage[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Residual cell culture materials[TD]Egg protein[/TD]

[TD]To grow enough of the virus or bacteria to make the vaccine [/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Residual inactivating ingredients[TD]Formaldehyde[/TD]

[TD]To kill viruses or inactivate toxins during the manufacturing process [/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

Residual antibiotics[TD]Penicillin, sulfa drugs[/TD]

[TD]To prevent contamination by bacteria during the vaccine manufacturing process[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

EmmaZ06 · Oct 15, 2012

[TABLE=width: 70%]
[TR]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Thimerosal (only in multi-dose vials of flu vaccine)[/TD]
[TD]To prevent contamination[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Aluminum salts[/TD]
[TD]To help stimulate the body’s response to the antigens[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Sugars, gelatin[/TD]
[TD]To keep the vaccine potent during transportation and storage[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Egg protein[/TD]
[TD]To grow enough of the virus or bacteria to make the vaccine[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Formaldehyde[/TD]
[TD]To kill viruses or inactivate toxins during the manufacturing process[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Penicillin, sulfa drugs[/TD]
[TD]To prevent contamination by bacteria during the vaccine manufacturing process[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

You have posted a list of common vaccine ingredients from the CDC website, NOT the ingredients of the flu vaccine. I did not say that there is no aluminum in any vaccines, I said that it is not in the influenza vaccine. If you read the actual ingredients of the influenza vaccine (it is all in the chart that I previously posted) none of brands contain aluminum.