Flu shot issue

[coolpeach]

I get a flu shot every year without any problem, and took a flu shot at work this week. This flu shot hurt a lot. It burned going in, and literally made my eyes tear up. Usually it doesn't hurt at all. I work nights, and went home and to bed right after. When I woke up the area was very swollen, red, hot to touch, and very sore. I took two Tylenol and went to work thinking the new H1N1 made it hurt worse, and it would get better.

By the next morning I felt feverish, my throat was so sore I could barely swallow my own secretions, and I was having periods of dizziness. I would be sitting there charting and suddenly feel as if the room had spun sideways. I made it through the night, and went home to bed. I woke up and my throat was better, but I had nausea, a headache, and was achy all over. I was off for the night so I went back to bed, and had a really rough night. I would be cold, but wake up wet with sweat so I think I was sweating off a fever.

When I got up I had hives all over me 16 total (back, buttocks, and sides). Since I have been up I have two more appear. I am still have a headache, feel achy, and feel feverish even though it shows my temp is normal.

I called into work tonight, and plan on seeing the Dr in the morning.

This year my hospital REQUIRED us to get the flu vaccine, paid for it, and administered it. If this is indeed a reaction can they consider my call in an occurrence, or would it fall under the workers comp plan as a work related situation?

[OttawaRPN]

Don't be deceived into thinking our system is any better or unique from the Americans. Did you know that Canada signed a 'pandemic' co-operation agreement, that basically co-ordinates our two country's policies and even allows the military to come into our country in order to protect it's interests in case of natural or manmade disasters (including pandemics)?? Our quasi-democratic society only lightly veils the tyranny as democracy...but only lightly.

You mean the North American pandemic plan as part of NAFTA? I don't see it as much different from the civil assistance plan allowing military from one nation to support the armed forces of the other nation... during floods, forest fires, earthquakes, terrorist attacks and now pandemics. The border hopping goes both ways. Wouldn't worry too much about it, ain't gonna happen in our lifetime.

[Chiggysmom]

Well said Ottawa!!! You stated everything I was thinking but I wasn't able to articulate it as well as you (responding to these things @ 1:30-2:00 in the morning when I should have been in bed might have had a little something to do with it).

[CuriousMe]

Somehow I'm not at all surprised that you made this leap but no... the followers are those that reluctantly succumb to intimidation from those in a position of power, despite their better judgment.

I won't be baited into continuing Round 2 of this p!ssing contest, but will leave with a final observation. Unlike you, I am capable of objectively seeing the value on both sides of the equation. In fact there's no disputing that flu vaccination programs have been largely effective in improving health of communities worldwide however, there's also no disputing that valid concern regarding the efficacy and safety of the vaccines exists in many professional circles and is equally significant.

There is a myriad of information supporting and disputing both sides of the argument, it's simply a matter of what one chooses to believe. My belief is that free society should not be forced to comply with pressure tactics under duress for fear of losing their jobs, especially on an issue so questionable. And before you go all mental again on the use of the word "forced" if one's very livelihood and future are threatened if non-compliant, that's called psychological coercion. This practice, in my world, is misguided and unconscionable.

Your argument of submitting to drug testing or criminal record checks as conditions of employment are moot points, none of these requirements introduce potentially harmful substances into your system. Apples to oranges.

And finally, you and I will have to agree to disagree as going around in circles has become counterproductive and tedious. I've marked my territory, you've marked yours, onwards and upwards.

The one thing your comments have failed to be is objective, to pretend anything else is pretty ridiculous.

It's evident that your area of Canada is not "right to work" if it was, you'd understand why vaccination requirements are no more coercive, then any other employment requirements. It's just the way "right to work" states are.

I wish you the best in the future.

[coolpeach]

I have to chime in here because after all it is my thread. It got off topic, but here's my two cents. I get my flu shot every year, but I personally think it should be a choice.

Yes, I did sign up to be a health care professional, but no one told me by doing so I would be signing over the right to my body. If thats the case where does it end. Will they start dictating other aspects of my personal life. What about who you have sex with...you could get HIV, Herpes, etc etc. What you eat, if you drink, smoke etc. Certain things could lower your immune system making it more likely for you to catch things, and pass them on to patients. It could go on forever.

And frankly if they were that concerned about patient safety and health they would make other changes...

1. Allow us to stay out when we are sick...instead we have a strict call out policy, and are at risk of being fired if we miss very much. I don't see them too worried about patient heath here. I actually has stomach virus with vomiting, high fever etc at the beginning of the year. I was told to take Zofran because it wouldn't make me sleepy, and get to work. It seems they worried about the patient in the instance doesn't it?

2. Less patients, more nurses....this would certainly cut down on errors, and make things safer for every patient.

3. I work a 12 hour shift, plus have to be there 15 minutes early, and usually stay an hour late. You add drive time, and getting ready time, and I am up 19 hours with 5 hours sleep. If I do 3 in a row by 4am that 3rd night I am smashed. There have been countless studies about the long hours, and how its dangerous. Do they care about patient safety? My health??? NO!!!!

****When it comes down to it...They care about themselves, and their bottom line. Patient safety is a factor, but only as it directly affects the above stated.

2.

[CuriousMe]

Actually, it's not uncommon for hospitals to now require their employees to not smoke. Not just to not smoke at work, but to not smoke.

That, like getting a flu shot, is not a requirement of your profession, but of your job. You can choose to get another job, and they can choose to hire an employee that doesn't smoke and will get a flu shot.

I personally feel that getting a flu shot is an ethical requirement for a HCP (barring medical contraindicaitons)....but that is my belief, not a policy.

I have to chime in here because after all it is my thread. It got off topic, but here's my two cents. I get my flu shot every year, but I personally think it should be a choice.

Yes, I did sign up to be a health care professional, but no one told me by doing so I would be signing over the right to my body. If thats the case where does it end. Will they start dictating other aspects of my personal life. What about who you have sex with...you could get HIV, Herpes, etc etc. What you eat, if you drink, smoke etc. Certain things could lower your immune system making it more likely for you to catch things, and pass them on to patients. It could go on forever.

And frankly if they were that concerned about patient safety and health they would make other changes...

1. Allow us to stay out when we are sick...instead we have a strict call out policy, and are at risk of being fired if we miss very much. I don't see them too worried about patient heath here. I actually has stomach virus with vomiting, high fever etc at the beginning of the year. I was told to take Zofran because it wouldn't make me sleepy, and get to work. It seems they worried about the patient in the instance doesn't it?

2. Less patients, more nurses....this would certainly cut down on errors, and make things safer for every patient.

3. I work a 12 hour shift, plus have to be there 15 minutes early, and usually stay an hour late. You add drive time, and getting ready time, and I am up 19 hours with 5 hours sleep. If I do 3 in a row by 4am that 3rd night I am smashed. There have been countless studies about the long hours, and how its dangerous. Do they care about patient safety? My health??? NO!!!!

****When it comes down to it...They care about themselves, and their bottom line. Patient safety is a factor, but only as it directly affects the above stated.

2.

[Chiggysmom]

CoolPeach,

You are so-o right on! I've been saying for quite some time, that if the issue was "really" all about the patient then they wouldn't even LET US come to work when we're sick but instead, not only do they NOT let us stay home, but they force us to come to work when we're sick, running fevers, throwing up etc. Making us get a flu shot looks good for them on paper and it's something that WE (the staff as in not the hospital) have to do, but there's so many other things they could do as you outlined, if what they're really interested in is the patient. We are treated like collateral damage, if we get sick and run down from long hrs, weird shifts, it's no different to the company than it is to the coal mining operators, they realize every once in a while they're going to lose a few, it's the nature of the job working in what they know are actually unsafe mines and in the same way, the hospitals don't give a rats butt about us, we're simply the worker bees, we're expendable and especially now when there's not a nursing shortage and there are plenty of nurses that would gladly work our long, hard hours and submit to a flu shot or any other shot for that matter just for the chance to have a job. It really is all about the bottom line when it comes down to it. I've been thinking this and saying it for quite some time and I'm glad to see that I'm not alone in my thoughts and opinions.

[CuriousMe]

CoolPeach,

You are so-o right on! I've been saying for quite some time, that if the issue was "really" all about the patient then they wouldn't even LET US come to work when we're sick but instead, not only do they NOT let us stay home, but they force us to come to work when we're sick, running fevers, throwing up etc. Making us get a flu shot looks good for them on paper and it's something that WE (the staff as in not the hospital) have to do, but there's so many other things they could do as you outlined, if what they're really interested in is the patient. We are treated like collateral damage, if we get sick and run down from long hrs, weird shifts, it's no different to the company than it is to the coal mining operators, they realize every once in a while they're going to lose a few, it's the nature of the job working in what they know are actually unsafe mines and in the same way, the hospitals don't give a rats butt about us, we're simply the worker bees, we're expendable and especially now when there's not a nursing shortage and there are plenty of nurses that would gladly work our long, hard hours and submit to a flu shot or any other shot for that matter just for the chance to have a job. It really is all about the bottom line when it comes down to it. I've been thinking this and saying it for quite some time and I'm glad to see that I'm not alone in my thoughts and opinions.

Wow! I'm glad I don't work at your hospital!

[OttawaRPN]

Chiggy & Coolpeach:

Yep, the expectations are brutal, more than is humanly possibly in many circumstances, robots can mechanically do the job without the thinking and feeling aspect complicated by humans. Nothing will change for us mere mortals until nurses start standing up for their rights to be individuals first, nurses second.

[Chiggysmom]

CuriousMe,

You mean it's different at your hospital? They actually care about their staff as much as the patients and their bottom line as well? Where do you work? Is it a magnate hospital? I am sure there would be plenty of people interested in working at your facility, although if it's that's wonderful, I doubt there are many vacancies. It's been my experience, that all of them are pretty much the same but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that maybe your's is different.

[CaLLaCoDe, BSN, RN]

I suppose we could extend this rule, requiring staff to be vaccinated to the visitors, requiring anyone entering a hospital be vaccinated. It's only fair. Besides, they're just as likely to be unwitting vectors as well as us!

[martinhea13]

Here's an interesting interview about changing liability legislation for vaccine manufacturers.

[coolpeach]

Just an update......

After the hives disappeared I was left with the burning shingles like feeling in my back, but the crossed midline which is something shingles generally doesn't do. I would get areas of redness (very bright slapped/Sunburned) that would go away after a few hours, and reappear somewhere else on my back. Also one tiny red bump here or there, but nothing to write home about.

This continued all last week. The pain getting worse and worse. It hurts to wear a shirt, it hurts to lay in bed, or lean back against the sofa. It hurts to take a bath, or have the fan blow in my direction. Now i have a bunch of bumps on both sides in clusters, and on the right side at the base of my hair line. And now the back of my scalp itches.

If you remember when I went to the Dr Friday before last I was told I had a reaction to the flu shot, the hives were gone, and the pain would resolve itself. I was told that they didn't think the pain was shingles since it never crosses the midline, and it would more than likely resolve itself.

Well it didn't, and I am headed back to the Dr. this morning to see what to do next.