What's Really at Stake with this CNA/SEIU Controversy

Nurses Union

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Hey, this is Nadia. I'm an SEIU staffer. Not an RN--but I've been talking to quite a few of them from Ohio over the past few weeks since CNA crept onto the scene. They're angry. We're angry. There's a lot of moving parts to the story, so I thought I'd try to give a little context here...

By now you may feel like you've heard quite enough of the back-and-forth between SEIU and the CNA over union representation of nurses and healthcare workers in Ohio. You may have also heard that the dispute runs deep and wide and goes back years and across state lines into Nevada, California, Texas and several others, and that the encounters have become more extreme.

And perhaps you're wondering--why should I care?

If this were just about CNA and SEIU, or even just about a dispute at an isolated hospital in one state, you could move on. The thing is, these struggles are not taking place in a vacuum--and what becomes of them has far-reaching impact that touches us all. At a time when the economy is bad and getting worse, and the number of workers represented by a union in this country is an anemic 12%, labor unions face a choice...and workers everywhere face the consequences.

Unions can fight for turf within the ever-shrinking pool of unionized workers, or we can get back on the offensive by reaching out to help more workers join unions to strengthen the hand of more working families.

SEIU has been at the forefront of unions doing exactly this since 1996. And the results speak for themselves. Since 1996, more than 1 million new members have united to join SEIU. Today SEIU represents 1.9 million workers. These new members range from child care workers to city employees in nonunion right to work states like Texas and Arizona to, significantly, hospital workers.

By contrast, CNA, harking back to old-school craft unionism, has pursued an elitist agenda that not only excludes hospital workers who aren't registered nurses, it prevents registered nurses who want to join a union other than CNA from doing so simply because it's not the CNA.

Six days before union elections at nine hospitals in Ohio--one with unprecedented ground rules that resulted from three-plus years of hard work by hospital workers, their community allies, and SEIU to hammer out fair election guidelines with the state's largest health care system--CNA dropped into the state. CAN organizers ran a fiercely anti-union campaign encouraging workers to "vote no." Their tactics so poisoned the environment that the elections were cancelled. I won't go into detail here--it's all detailed in this timeline: http://www.shameoncna.com/include/timeline.asp.

By disrupting this process, CNA sent an unmistakable message to the hospital industry: if a hospital agrees to a fair organizing process, it will be subjected to outlandish accusations of "company unionism" and "backroom deals."

The CNA's actions in Ohio represent a major setback in the labor movement's efforts to raise the standard of employer conduct in organizing campaigns. And it's not the first time CAN has used such divisive tactics to poach members from an existing union or otherwise divide workers who are in the process of forming a union. It's happening in California, Nevada, Texas, and elsewhere.

But why might it matter to you? It should if you (you being a working person, a progressive, a consumer in the American economy, or all 3) because this approach undermines the future of the labor movement. At this time of historic inequality and utter insecurity in the American economy, workers need more than ever the strength in community that comes from being organized at work.

In the healthcare sector alone, there are nine million workers out there who don't have a union. As boomers age, our healthcare needs grow, and the industry's identity crisis drags on, healthcare workers united in unions have a crucial role to play.

The same is true for the other industries that employ hundreds of millions of American workers--88% of whom don't have a voice on the job.

But our ability as workers, progressives, and consumers to sit at the big kids' table depends on our ability to grow and our ability to work together. On a national scale, we're living the reality of what happens when a smaller and smaller percentage of workers stand together: corporations get to have a bigger and bigger say in the way things work and who gets what.

But at SEIU, we're living the reality of what happens when workers--with tremendous courage and at great odds--stand together for the interests of all working people: lives, neighborhoods, cities, and whole industries are transformed for the better.

Experience has taught us the hard lesson that circling the wagons simply doesn't work. And our progressive sensibilities--our concern for the common good--confirm it.

This struggle matters because it's not just about CNA or SEIU, or Rose Ann DeMoro or Andy Stern. It's about the future direction and vitality of the American labor movement--a movement that has the ability to blaze a path to an economy and a society that works for everyone--not just the lucky 12%...or 11...or 10...or 9%...

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"By contrast, CNA, harking back to old-school craft unionism, has pursued an elitist agenda that not only excludes hospital workers who aren’t registered nurses, it prevents registered nurses who want to join a union other than CNA from doing so simply because it’s not the CNA. "

In bold is the main reason I'm really interested in the CNA.

As an RN, my concerns are often very unique to registered nursing, and in direct conflict with the interests of some aides, techs, and others in health care.

I would not want a union that represents, aides, techs, or factory workers to represent me as an RN. The CNA is made up of RNs for RNs.

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If I wanted a union to represent me, I would have to go with Valerie.

I would want a union specifically for RN's.

However, I do not want to be affiliated with a union.

steph

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Specializes in Critical Care.
Hey, this is Nadia. I'm an SEIU staffer. Not an RN--but I've been talking to quite a few of them from Ohio over the past few weeks since CNA crept onto the scene. They're angry. We're angry. There's a lot of moving parts to the story, so I thought I'd try to give a little context here...

> your context is skewed.

QUOTE: By now you may feel like you've heard quite enough of the back-and-forth between SEIU and the CNA over union representation of nurses and healthcare workers in Ohio. You may have also heard that the dispute runs deep and wide and goes back years and across state lines into Nevada, California, Texas and several others, and that the encounters have become more extreme.END QUOTE

RESPONSE:

SEIU has claimed in the media that nurses were "poached" from SEIU. However, SEIU does not address the fact that during grievances, they never return a call; that in NV, the head of the NV SEIU division is in an embezzlement scandal (including gym memberships and parties for the exec. members). SEIU in NV also doesn't admit to chanting out people who were looking for a change and were elected union stewards (people were chanted out by SEIU yes-men with chants of "GO-GO-GO-"), and then REAPPOINTING NON ELECTED PERSONS TO BE BARGAINING MEMBERS FOR SEIU.

QUOTE: If this were just about CNA and SEIU, or even just about a dispute at an isolated hospital in one state, you could move on. The thing is, these struggles are not taking place in a vacuum--and what becomes of them has far-reaching impact that touches us all. At a time when the economy is bad and getting worse, and the number of workers represented by a union in this country is an anemic 12%, labor unions face a choice...and workers everywhere face the consequences.END QUOTE.

RESPONSE:

When the economy is bad, SEIU is using scare tactics. They're telling RN's in NV that they'll lose their contracts (not true-- federal labor boards allow us to keep our contract); they're telling ancillary staff that nurses are "leaving them behind" and that ancillary staff will "lose their contracts/ benefits". What does that say about SEIU??? It says that they want the RN salaries (nurses pay more as union members based on salaries), and that, without RN salaries, ancillary staff will not be fought for. And this is the union we, as RN's, and RN's that support ancillary staff, want as representation?

QUOTE: SEIU has been at the forefront of unions doing exactly this since 1996. And the results speak for themselves. Since 1996, more than 1 million new members have united to join SEIU. Today SEIU represents 1.9 million workers. These new members range from child care workers to city employees in nonunion right to work states like Texas and Arizona to, significantly, hospital workers.END QUOTE.

RESPONSE:

EXACTLY. SEIU has a poor history of representing RN's. I live and work in NV, and we have "staffing ratios" per the SEIU contract. However, there is a loophole in the contract that allows for managers to decide if those ratios will be followed. I worked in intermediate care, and we are supposed to have a ratio of 4-1 with a CNA. I worked with five patients, and no CNA. SEIU contracts have no teeth.

QUOTE:Six days before union elections at nine hospitals in Ohio--one with unprecedented ground rules that resulted from three-plus years of hard work by hospital workers, their community allies, and SEIU to hammer out fair election guidelines with the state's largest health care system--CNA dropped into the state. CAN organizers ran a fiercely anti-union campaign encouraging workers to "vote no." Their tactics so poisoned the environment that the elections were cancelled.END QUOTE.

RESPONSE:

This is standard practice for a union to try to represent themselves. My guess is that CNA didn't just "drop in"- they were invited in by employees who were unhappy with SEIU, just like in NV.

QUOTE: The CNA's actions in Ohio represent a major setback in the labor movement's efforts to raise the standard of employer conduct in organizing campaigns. And it's not the first time CAN has used such divisive tactics to poach members from an existing union or otherwise divide workers who are in the process of forming a union. It's happening in California, Nevada, Texas, and elsewhere. END QUOTE.

RESPONSE:

At least, can you type CNA right? As stated "CNA" is not poaching members. CNA is looking to raise the bar in NV for nursing contracts and patient care. I've been told by numerous SEIU members that I should just accept subpar because it's "Vegas". No, thank you. As a critical thinker, and patient care advocate, I'm looking for BETTER than Vegas. And I think CNA is the way. Certainly SEIU isn't. Just look up Las Vegas and healthcare, and the truth is there.

QUOTE:But at SEIU, we're living the reality of what happens when workers--with tremendous courage and at great odds--stand together for the interests of all working people: lives, neighborhoods, cities, and whole industries are transformed for the better. END QUOTE.

RESPONSE:

If you want the best for workers, patients, neighborhoods, cities and industries, you would not be posting flyers telling workers they will lose their contracts if they sign a card to at least HEAR CNA's message. You would not stand outside the doors to the hospital and yell at employees walking in who don't sign your solidarity card. You would not tape employees' conversations with CNA, nor would you take our pictures as we talk with CNA. You wouldn't discourage people from hearing both sides and making an educated decision. Put your money where your mouth is, and actually support the BEST interest of your workers-- regardless of your financial gain or loss.

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Specializes in ICU/Critical Care.

So will the OP go away after you said all that, Hellerd? I hope so. Anyhow, if I was going to be represented by a union, it better be by a union for RNs and RNs only. Too bad the Michigan Nurse Association can't take a lesson from the CNA.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
So will the OP go away after you said all that, Hellerd? I hope so. Anyhow, if I was going to be represented by a union, it better be by a union for RNs and RNs only. Too bad the Michigan Nurse Association can't take a lesson from the CNA.

Nah-- SEIU is like a bad rash. They'll never go away. All we can hope is that we provide enough treatment to save ourselves! ;-) And that the Roses nurses open themselves beyond the scare tactics and vote in a NURSING union that best represents NURSES.

If any Vegas nurses have not heard CNA's message and want to, show up at one of the Roses between 11am and 2pm. Feel free to show up and ask questions-- the CNA has not shirked from answering questions. I think you'd be surprised at what SEIU has been stating after the conversation, and would also be turning to CNA. BTW-- if you show up, you get free lunch. :-) Zabba's, Thai food, El Pollo Loco . . . yum! ;-)

Does anyone want to make Vegas a better healthcare field? Do you want a crappy contract because "it's vegas"? Or do you want a better environment because, as a citizen, you'll eventually need healthcare services? The latest SEUI campaign is to give out stickers that say, "double the dues; half the benefits"- which is a lie; benefits cannot change except for the better. However, we've been paying dues with terrible outcomes for our patients and ourselves, as patients have unenforced staffing ratios and nurses in NV have a terrible insurance policy that rejects claims left and right and costs $400/ month to cover a family-- TWICE what it did last year. I guess as a professional and healthcare consumer, I'd like to pay a bit more in union dues to get a better contract, which, historically, is what CNA has negotiated, in comparision with SEIU.

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Specializes in Dialysis, Hospice, Critical care.

Personally, I'm sick of both the CNA and SEIU. I really don't see either organization as having the best interest of nurses at heart, although the CNA seems to been less of a corporate suck-up than the SEIU.

While the staffing guidelines for nurses advocate by the CNA are all well and good, those staffing levels are achieved at the cost of aide positions on gen-med floors. And, as we all know, a good aide is an invaluable asset to both the patient and the nurse.

As for the SEIU...Andy Stern, SEIU president, has been quoted as saying of health-care systems, "If we can't have you employees, we will ruin your reputation...". This, to me, indicates more pf a concern for power as opposed to the principles of real representation for nurses and quality patient care.

In either case, CNA and the SEIU seem more concerned over their turf battles than being honest brokers between nurses and management.

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Specializes in ICU/Critical Care.
Personally, I'm sick of both the CNA and SEIU. I really don't see either organization as having the best interest of nurses at heart, although the CNA seems to been less of a corporate suck-up than the SEIU.

While the staffing guidelines for nurses advocate by the CNA are all well and good, those staffing levels are achieved at the cost of aide positions on gen-med floors. And, as we all know, a good aide is an invaluable asset to both the patient and the nurse.

As for the SEIU...Andy Stern, SEIU president, has been quoted as saying of health-care systems, "If we can't have you employees, we will ruin your reputation...". This, to me, indicates more pf a concern for power as opposed to the principles of real representation for nurses and quality patient care.

In either case, CNA and the SEIU seem more concerned over their turf battles than being honest brokers between nurses and management.

Good point.

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Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.

the regulation requiring minimum ratios also requires that support staff remain: http://www.dhs.ca.gov/lnc/pubnotice/ntpr/r-37-01_regulation_text.pdf

here is the first paragraph:

"hospitals shall provide staffing by licensed nurses, within the scope of their licensure in accordance with the following nurse-to-patient ratios. licensed nurse means a registered nurse, licensed vocational nurse and, in psychiatric units only, a licensed psychiatric technician. staffing for care not requiring a licensed nurse is not included within these ratios and shall be determined pursuant to the patient classification system."

i think of the ratio law like traffic regulation. it is good to have a law requiring all motorists stop at a red light. because some violate that law does not mean we should get rid of the law.

and because some hospitals laid off certified nursing assistants does not mean that the ratio law is bad. it means we need improved enforcement. now it seems the nurses must also police their hospitals and insist they obey the law.

here is an article written by seiu members:

the roots of the crisis in the seiu

april 25, 2008

http://www.socialistworker.org/2008-1/670/670_07_seiu.shtml

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Specializes in Dialysis, Hospice, Critical care.

dissension within seiu's ranks comes as no surprise given the union's move towards supporting employers which "...have to meet certain shareholder expectations, and labor can play a role in helping to meet them. - andy stern, mckinsey quarterly interview, 2006" .

i don't know if mr. stern is aware of this, but it is not labor's role to help meet shareholders expectations. we do that each and every day we show up for work and give our all to see that our patients get the best care available. it is the role of the union to act as an honest broker between nurses and management so that this goal may be reached without sacrificing patient safety and the quality of nursing care on the altar of share-holder dividends. for those of us who work for non-profits, even they feel the pinch as they compete with for profit boutique hospitals which cherry-pick the private pay cases leaving non-profits to take up the slack for those whose insurance is mediocre or have no insurance at all.

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Hmmm, wonder where the O.P. is now? Just read the newest info about the SEIU's deal with the NHs that kept all the ugly little secrets private. Now the stuff I got in the mail from NNOC vs SEIU is starting to make sense. Normally I don't like unions because of this very kind of thing happening - greed taking over and destroying a good cause, but since nothing else has happened to get nurses to stand together, it looks like we are between a rock and a hard place.

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