union pro or con

[mark3274]

does your hospital have a union for the nurses? if so has it helped or not?

why do nurses constantly eat each other rather than say have a more powerful labor voice when dealing with all these health care systems or merged hospitals which really means big corporations concerned with one thing there bottom line not your wages.

Don't you think it is sad that in most places in the USA a RN makes less than a dental hygenist....

heck in upstate NY my Hygenist makes over 30 bucks a hour and she started at 29 dollars a hour far more than what a starting RN will make here.

[advocateforsafety]

i support unions because in the ten years that i have been a nurse i have witnessed decision after decision made almost exclusively based on budget and cost. patient safety is second and when you advocate for your patients and your profession you are labeled a troublemaker. i have been a manager and have seen the other side and came away ashamed of our administrators and leaders.

unions are as stated in prior post only as good as their members but they at least offer a binding contract and a voice at the table for nursing.

hca in nashville, tn has recently informed their nursing staff that they will be making the following changes in pay.

-there will be no raises this year. (raises are between 2-3%; never over 3% and 50% of that raise is withheld for 6 months. in other words if you receive a 2% raise annually, you are given 1% in january and 6 months later you get the other 1% added, saving hca the cost of paying you for half of your annual raise. now rns will not even get that).

-the 4 hour night shift differential is being taken away from the day shift nurses. (were being paid a shift differential of $3.50/hr from 3-7pm) that’s about a 2,200 dollar a year pay cut for full time day nurses.

-holiday pay is being decreased from $6.00/hr to $5.00/hr. (you may recall that last year they decided to cut off holiday pay at midnight. exp: if you work christmas day on the night shift, you get holiday pay from 7p-midnight, and since christmas day officially ends at midnight, you don’t get paid that holiday pay for the rest of your shift even though you missed sharing it with your family)

this is while the big wigs are taking in more and more profit. read the following article and see for your self. http://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2008/12/19/hca_execs_clear_millions_is_options_transactions with a contract the pay cuts would not be possible.

it is unfortunate that people will not just do the right thing. we need to organize for the same reason we have laws and rules; to keep all players honest and fairly represented.

[RN4MERCY]

i support unions because in the ten years that i have been a nurse i have witnessed decision after decision made almost exclusively based on budget and cost. patient safety is second and when you advocate for your patients and your profession you are labeled a troublemaker. i have been a manager and have seen the other side and came away ashamed of our administrators and leaders.

unions are as stated in prior post only as good as their members but they at least offer a binding contract and a voice at the table for nursing.

hca in nashville, tn has recently informed their nursing staff that they will be making the following changes in pay.

-there will be no raises this year. (raises are between 2-3%; never over 3% and 50% of that raise is withheld for 6 months. in other words if you receive a 2% raise annually, you are given 1% in january and 6 months later you get the other 1% added, saving hca the cost of paying you for half of your annual raise. now rns will not even get that).

-the 4 hour night shift differential is being taken away from the day shift nurses. (were being paid a shift differential of $3.50/hr from 3-7pm) that’s about a 2,200 dollar a year pay cut for full time day nurses.

-holiday pay is being decreased from $6.00/hr to $5.00/hr. (you may recall that last year they decided to cut off holiday pay at midnight. exp: if you work christmas day on the night shift, you get holiday pay from 7p-midnight, and since christmas day officially ends at midnight, you don’t get paid that holiday pay for the rest of your shift even though you missed sharing it with your family)

this is while the big wigs are taking in more and more profit. read the following article and see for your self. http://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2008/12/19/hca_execs_clear_millions_is_options_transactions with a contract the pay cuts would not be possible.

it is unfortunate that people will not just do the right thing. we need to organize for the same reason we have laws and rules; to keep all players honest and fairly represented.

thanks advocate for shinning a light on these corporate leeches. the public and our patients deserve to know the truth about why greed is a threat to their health, about why hca nurses are organizing with nnoc, and why it's a social and economic imperative that we win passage of hr 676 (conyers), so we can have a publicly accountable system of health care in this country.

vulnerable sick and injured patients bear the brunt of the pain and suffering brought on by the market-based, profit taking practice you've described; it siphons money away from providing medicine, treatment, and rns who care for patients. rns have a duty to speak out and change the conditions that are against the interests of their patients. we shouldn't have to fear retaliation from unethical employers for our advocacy. sister agnes karll, rn once said, "the only practical remedy for all abuses is self-organization."

one has to wonder though, (when we start seeing hospital executives exercising their stock options at the expense of the workers and patients), are the hca bosses bailing out and manning their lifeboats, while leaving the patients and staff behind on the sinking ship of a collapsing economy?

we have a moral and ethical obligation to prevent harm. we all know how awful the current economic and health care crisis is but there is a solution as outlined in a new study just released by the institute for health and socio-economic policy, (ihsp). read about it here , as published in the nation. "these dramatic new findings document for the first time that a single payer system could not only solve our healthcare crisis, but also substantially contribute to putting america back to work and assisting the economic recovery," says geri jenkins, rn, council of presidents, cna/national nurses organizing committee. cna/nnoc sponsored the study.

collectively as nurses, we've done our assessment and now it's time to act on behalf of our patients by becoming active members of our union. indeed, our lives, livelihood, and those of our compatriots depend on it.

[lindarn]

It never ceases to amaze me, that the "martry mary nurses", continue to fight organizing their hospitals. Nurses continue to remain, naive, and gullible in the face of blatant anti worker policies by hospitals. Why nurses will not unionize to improve their working conditions, pay, and benefits, is beyond my comprehension. This is a no brainer in my book.

I only wish that I could get NNOC here in Washington State and get rid of the worthless state nursing association that we have in too many hospitals. Talk about a "company union" they are it. JMHO and my NY $0.02.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington

[Iam46yearsold]

Unions will never solve the problem, only add to the problem. Unions exhibit greed like anyone else. The single most important item on any strike is "PAY" everything else is just smoke.

[APRN., DNP, RN, APRN, NP]

Yeah....We should just dump our unions and send our union dues to the CEO's of our hospitals instead. I'm sure they'll take our money in good faith and make sure that we are well taken care of for such generosity.

[Iam46yearsold]

That might actually work. Bribery has always been an effective tool. Look how well it worked in Alaskan politics. and Illinois Politics. I can be bribed.

[advocateforsafety]

Greed, lust for power, and corruption exist in every enterprise that involves man. This truth does not and should not keep man from attempting to make life better for the whole of us all. Unions have made many mistakes but have also brought about many changes in our society that have benefited us all. The weekend following a five day work week, the 40 hr work week, lunch breaks, overtime, restrictions against child labor and many more rights that we all enjoy every day are a direct result of union workers demands for justice and fair labor practices.

I don't believe that all corporations are unjust or treat their employees unfairly. I do however believe that their is nothing wrong with workers standing together to ensure that the relationship of mutual respect is sealed with a contract and any company practicing in good faith should have no problem with that.

On this day remember that Martin Luther King was assasinated while in Memphis to assist striking sanitation workers. Sometimes when its said that the pay is unfair thats because it is unfair. Also I would ask those that believe all unions are bad and only out for the dollar to look at history. Many of the strikes in this country have been related to working conditions and the safety of the work place but it is not wrong to look out for your own economic security. All executives of all companies have contract that ensure what types of raises and bonuses they will recieve, most regardless of whether or not the comapny did well that year. Should the average employee not have that right as well? Most are not asking for more than to keep up with inflation and the cost of living. While they are buying big houses and cars we are just wanting to feed and provide basic comforts for our families. We are not asking for handouts, just what is fair.

[Ginger's Mom, MSN, RN]

There is good and bad points to a union, but the big issue is with lay off it would be done on seniority which is only fair.

[Iam46yearsold]

But lets not forget the extremely high amount of corruption and criminal activity that has plagued the history of union activity in this country. And where is Jimmy Hoffa buried anyway. Does all this corruption become sanctified just because we think it is for our benefit.

Nursing does very well at keeping all of us comfortable. The number of nurses Ive known who have raised their 4 or 5 or 6 and even one I know who f

has raised his 7 children and put them through college. I think that sounds like nursing is successful to me. Nurse who get into trouble are really a small per centage. Everyone else like anything else gets by nicely if they apply themselves. You dont need a union with a history of corruption for that.

[RN4MERCY]

Does all this corruption become sanctified just because we think it is for our benefit.

So, the question is, "union pro or con." And your response just doesn't make any sense to me. Oh, I get the fact that you're anti-union alright. But you're trying to taint the whole labor movement because of a corrupt individual? Do you disparage religion because of a greedy pastor or two? Do you disparage government because of a crooked politician?

I don't recall reading a post anywhere in this forum where the author spoke about corruption being of benefit to anyone.

[Iam46yearsold]

Now if a prounion type talks about the good history of unions that is ok. Talk about the dirt of unions, that is not ok. Is that what you are saying.

[Julia RN]

but lets not forget the extremely high amount of corruption and criminal activity that has plagued the history of union activity in this country. and where is jimmy hoffa buried anyway. does all this corruption become sanctified just because we think it is for our benefit.

nursing does very well at keeping all of us comfortable. the number of nurses ive known who have raised their 4 or 5 or 6 and even one i know who f

has raised his 7 children and put them through college. i think that sounds like nursing is successful to me. nurse who get into trouble are really a small per centage. everyone else like anything else gets by nicely if they apply themselves. you dont need a union with a history of corruption for that.

educated union members know that the antidote for corruption in the labor movement is union democracy. lessons of our forefathers have taught us well. dedicated union activists know that "watchdog" is as an important part of their function as nurses do- (ask tdu-teamsters for a democratic union and ny nurses united -a new group or better yet check out: http://uniondemocracy.org/ )

democracy is never won without a struggle, whether in a union or in a nation, (for some of the reasons already citied- greed, power lust) but is well worth the fight.

i'm thinking of the many examples in "utopian" literature- should we give up our freedoms because man is imperfect and corrupt? what kind of society would we be left with?