union pro or con

[mark3274]

does your hospital have a union for the nurses? if so has it helped or not?

why do nurses constantly eat each other rather than say have a more powerful labor voice when dealing with all these health care systems or merged hospitals which really means big corporations concerned with one thing there bottom line not your wages.

Don't you think it is sad that in most places in the USA a RN makes less than a dental hygenist....

heck in upstate NY my Hygenist makes over 30 bucks a hour and she started at 29 dollars a hour far more than what a starting RN will make here.

[momatwork]

I have worked in both climates. I do not need another organization to answer to, such as a union. If they belong to a national union, add another organization as well. As a nurse and patient advocate, I speak for myself and my patients and do not need an intermediary, who I would pay over 1% of my gross salary to. I want to work in an organization that recognizes the contributions I make, and do not want to receive the same raise as the mediocre RN who just gets by for her paycheck.

[seablitz.llc]

Sorry, that is simply not true. Maybe in your hometown they do, but there are many places in the country where nurses can make more than physicians.

Here is something to keep in mind. It's what Union leaders don't want you to think about and will tell you that you shouldn't care about, but if you're a nurse, then you are generous and caring by your very nature, so you won't be able to ignore it:

If you live in an area with a low cost of living, such as upstate NY, then you are going to get paid less than someone who lives and works in Boston or Chicago. To unionize your nurses and strong-arm your hospital in to paying you a wage that is on a par with what nurses in those other cities make, then you have to be prepared to deal with the consequences. If the salaries of all the nurses go up, then hospital bills are going to skyrocket as well. One thing that Unions are good at is promoting mediocrity: you know that crappy nurse who just got fired for being absolutely incompetent and almost killing a few of her patients? If you had a Union, she'd literally have to kill someone before the hospital could get rid of her.

I'm not saying don't unionize. I'm saying think about

I am now working at my first non-union hospital in my eight year career and it is the most pleasant and patient-centered working environment I have ever been in.

Selfish and uncaring people do not make good nurses. Generous and selfless people do not make good Union members. Last year, the current President of the National Education Association (teachers union) was asked his opinion on the fact that teachers salaries were getting so high in some schools that they are having to shut down band, choir, and art programs just to keep up with payroll requirements, and he said he would start worrying about their interests when they join his Union.

Unionizing will not result in all the things you think it will and should. If working conditions at your hospital are absolutely intolerable, THEN QUIT! Maybe you haven't heard, but there are more nursing jobs then nurses right now, so it's not like that place is the only job you can ever have. If enough people start quitting, it will force the hospital to make the changes they need to make to keep people. It's called a free-market employment system and it is hated by Union leaders everywhere.

what it means for everyone involved; think about what it means for your patients, not just for you.

I am absolutely a union pro as well. However, as a nurse who is very much involved in hospital finances, there are many information that is not being filtered to the members when collective bargaining are being proposed. For example, since 1996, our nurses received 3% increase per year. What is neglected in the bargaining table as an information is that annually, hospital expenses increases between 6 to 8%. Since the Balanced Budget Act of 1997, hospital payment from Medicare and Medicaid decreased by approximately 12% between 1997 and 2003 alone. New regulations and federal initiatives continues to hit hospitals' bottom line across the United States. Hospitals are closing, in NY alone, 21 hospitals and 48 Nursing Homes have closed since 2000 (HANYS.org, 2008).

In reference to the salary comparison between a nurse and a dental hygienist - it is apples and oranges because RN/LPN benefits are pretty decent and comprises 18% of hospital budget. I cannot say the same thing with dental hygienist if they are working under a private practitioner.

The literature suggests that very few hospitals are operating with sound financial status. The whole healthcare system is in a financial mess, that is why even government implement programs to mitigate the demise of our Medicare program, which hospitals depend on heavily for revenue.

[lindarn]

Sorry, that is simply not true. Maybe in your hometown they do, but there are many places in the country where nurses can make more than physicians.

Here is something to keep in mind. It's what Union leaders don't want you to think about and will tell you that you shouldn't care about, but if you're a nurse, then you are generous and caring by your very nature, so you won't be able to ignore it:

If you live in an area with a low cost of living, such as upstate NY, then you are going to get paid less than someone who lives and works in Boston or Chicago. To unionize your nurses and strong-arm your hospital in to paying you a wage that is on a par with what nurses in those other cities make, then you have to be prepared to deal with the consequences. If the salaries of all the nurses go up, then hospital bills are going to skyrocket as well. One thing that Unions are good at is promoting mediocrity: you know that crappy nurse who just got fired for being absolutely incompetent and almost killing a few of her patients? If you had a Union, she'd literally have to kill someone before the hospital could get rid of her.

I'm not saying don't unionize. I'm saying think about

I am absolutely a union pro as well. However, as a nurse who is very much involved in hospital finances, there are many information that is not being filtered to the members when collective bargaining are being proposed. For example, since 1996, our nurses received 3% increase per year. What is neglected in the bargaining table as an information is that annually, hospital expenses increases between 6 to 8%. Since the Balanced Budget Act of 1997, hospital payment from Medicare and Medicaid decreased by approximately 12% between 1997 and 2003 alone. New regulations and federal initiatives continues to hit hospitals' bottom line across the United States. Hospitals are closing, in NY alone, 21 hospitals and 48 Nursing Homes have closed since 2000 (HANYS.org, 2008).

In reference to the salary comparison between a nurse and a dental hygienist - it is apples and oranges because RN/LPN benefits are pretty decent and comprises 18% of hospital budget. I cannot say the same thing with dental hygienist if they are working under a private practitioner.

The literature suggests that very few hospitals are operating with sound financial status. The whole healthcare system is in a financial mess, that is why even government implement programs to mitigate the demise of our Medicare program, which hospitals depend on heavily for revenue.

Your arguement would have more credibility, if it were not for the fact that these same hospitals are always coming up with the "empty pockets" routine at contract time. They have no problem, however, with giving the green light to "necessary capital expenditures". Pianos in the lobby, fancy expensive artwork, lavish lobbies, an overabundance of "paper pushing administrators", assistants to the assistants, etc, ad nauseum.

You are obviously in administration, and truly cannot identify with the peons in the trenches. Where is their reward for all of the hard work they do, day in, and day out, year after year? Unions are proliferating in the US, (not fast enough in my book), because of the inequities of working as a nurse. We are not rewarded for our hard work, and told to bed over and take it when the workload is impossible. Then we are made to look at where the raises and benefits they should have received, are instead poured into the above expenditures, which do not benefit patient care and/or positive patient outcomes. And now we are being told that we are greedy and unrealistic?

Keep making the excuses that nurses are asking too much to be paid for what we are worth and we contribute to positive patient outcomes. And by the way, who told you that the cost of living in Upstate NY is a bargain? You might ask my in laws who have lived in Buffalo their entire lives just how "cheap" the cost of living is in Upstate NY. NY is one of the highest taxed states in the country. JMHO and my NY $0.02.

Lindarn, RN, BSN, CCRN

Spokane, Washington