Why Do CNA's cannabilize each other, and what can be done to fix it?

fuzzywuzzy, CNA · Jan 8, 2010

"What are LTC's really for? Are they actually places where our elders can come to live out their lives with some diginity, or are they just another money making scheme?"

Bottom line is they are places for elders who need full-time care and have families who cannot, or will not take care of them at home, or for those who don't have any family. And just like anything else in today's world, they are also about making a buck.

That said, I really don't see how my post was "cannibalizing other CNAs." The job is stressful and as another poster pointed out, these types of coworkers can be found in every job out there, no matter what type of work. Naturally if you're going to see threads about people at work, they're going to be about fellow CNAs because those are the people we spend the most time with. You can get all bent out of shape about it, or you can have a little fun with it. Which is more healthy? Everyone else who replied to the thread found humor in it, while you perceived it as accusatory (and personal), which was not my intent. It was not a vent thread (though I believe even those have their place here); it was intended to be humorous.

Even if my thread did have a negative tone, I hardly think that posting something anonymously on the internet qualifies as "cannibalistic." Never once have I gone to administration about any of the workers I mentioned. In fact I have no problem getting along with any of them. I don't go around pointing fingers at people all day trying to get them fired, like you seem to imagine.

paacollins · Jan 8, 2010

I didn't read the original post so I have no idea what is going on but I will tell you my experience. I worked in LTC as a CNA prior to beginning nursing school. I worked with a few CNAs who were terrific: they truly cared about their patients, believed in teamwork, and were pleasant. I worked with others who hated their jobs, had no patients or empathy towards them, would rush thru their patients so they could run outside and smoke, and wouldn't help someone else if their life depended on it. I went home from work miserable many, many nights. I am getting ready to begin a job in LTC again, this time as an RN and when I see a CNA being nice to her residents, helping someone out, or just being pleasant, I intend to praise him/her to the highest. Being a CNA is a hard job physically and often mentally. It is low paying as well. But it is also a job where if you don't truly like caring for people, you shouldn't do it.

By the way, CNAs aren't the only ones that are cannibalistic. I've seen some mighty nasty LPNS and RNS as well. I've said it a million times that healthcare is the ONE area we truly need teamwork and it seems to the be the area where teamwork is seen the least. Very, very sad and I pray it changes. I also hope that as an RN, I might be able to make a difference, no matter how small.

NM nurse to be · Jan 8, 2010

Interesting questions. At my particular facility, it is all about the almighty dollar. The people (residents) who bring in that dollar seem to be after thoughts a lot of the time. The trouble with this as far as teamwork goes is that it does NOT foster any. Every man for himself and if you 'get the other guy' before he gets you, then you keep your job. Or stay in favor or whatever. But to me, the real issue is that care suffers greatly, whether from lack of supplies (saving on budget) to poor staff attitudes and care.

I don't see this issue as cannablising others as the major problem. I think it stems from higher up the food chain and directly corelates to the administrations outlook. If employees are expendable (and I've heard the admin say CNA's grow on trees), the morale at ground level will be zero and the attitude of fighting to stay employed makes aides (or nurses) fight amongst themselves. If the employees are valued (I hear this does happen too), the whole system seems to change for the better.

I saw Fuzzy's post as a humorous list of what we deal with every day. It wasn't meant maliciously, just a commentary on what we all see every day. She could also have made it a list of 'resident types' that would be funny too. We do need to find some humor in our day, or it does make us crazy.

paacollins · Jan 8, 2010

If you have an administrator saying "CNAs grow on trees", he/she is setting the stage for disaster. True,there are tons of CNAs out there but a truly hard-working, caring CNA that believes in teamwork is worth his/her weight in gold. A lot of times administrators have business degrees and not healthcare degrees. Many of them have never done any of the "grunt" work and simply make up the governing laws of the corporations. If they had to do what a CNA does, or an LPN or RN for that matter, they might be singing a new tune mighty fast.

NM nurse to be · Jan 8, 2010

That's exactly my point, Paacollins! There is no teamwork because none is fostered and that isn't a problem, in the admin view. He is not at all healthcare in background. I'm not sure what business background he has either. But the bottom line is that it kills off caring about anything. The skillled aides and nurses don't stay or assimilate into the existing environment.

This is the sort of situation where a for fun list turns meaningful because those types are what get ahead, it seems like. I am staying for several reasons and I do hope to make it better for my residents on a personal level. But after school, I don't know that this is the place for me.

caliotter3 · Jan 8, 2010

In the facilities where I worked as a CNA, one had to be extremely careful if one did not fit the picture of the majority of the CNAs. They had an uncanny way of making certain that you were sent out the door if you didn't fit in. On most occasions there would be one or two who would tell you to your face what was going to happen to your job. No wonder that these facilities had a disproportionate number of employees who all fit a common demographic. Yes, cannibalization, but selective cannibalization and unfortunately that is the way it is. You can't change reality to fit the "way it ought to be" just because you want to. Management encourages this behavior.

GCTMT · Jan 9, 2010

Interesting questions. At my particular facility, it is all about the almighty dollar. The people (residents) who bring in that dollar seem to be after thoughts a lot of the time. The trouble with this as far as teamwork goes is that it does NOT foster any. Every man for himself and if you 'get the other guy' before he gets you, then you keep your job. Or stay in favor or whatever. But to me, the real issue is that care suffers greatly, whether from lack of supplies (saving on budget) to poor staff attitudes and care.
I don't see this issue as cannablising others as the major problem. I think it stems from higher up the food chain and directly corelates to the administrations outlook. If employees are expendable (and I've heard the admin say CNA's grow on trees), the morale at ground level will be zero and the attitude of fighting to stay employed makes aides (or nurses) fight amongst themselves. If the employees are valued (I hear this does happen too), the whole system seems to change for the better.
I saw Fuzzy's post as a humorous list of what we deal with every day. It wasn't meant maliciously, just a commentary on what we all see every day. She could also have made it a list of 'resident types' that would be funny too. We do need to find some humor in our day, or it does make us crazy.

-My emphasis.

Yes, this really gets to the heart of the matter. Care suffers for the almighty dollar, and it bothers me to no end.

dannyc12 · Jan 12, 2010

What is valued at your LTC, people or profits?

Profits.

The reason CNAs cannibalize each other is due to incompetent management.

makingitright · Jan 13, 2010

I just got through posting on another thread. I was a bit annoyed by it. In retrospect I do not believe that the person who started the thread was doing so in a malicious way. I think now that it was done to get people to laugh and well say, yes I know someone exactly like this. I guess they caught me on a day when I did not feel like laughing.

I had to edit my response here, for it felt too feel good and non chalant. It is almost as I was feeling disconnected somehow. I suppose one could say that as I am writing I am starting to recall the politics and the crap that goes on these places.

It seems to me that managment salivates and licks their fingers and sit back and await the outcome of the games. They pit nurses against each other, nurses agaisnst cna's, cna's against cna's and so on and so forth all in attempt to disguise their underhandedness. If we are all fighting amongst ourselves then we take focus off of what really matters "Poor care solution and very low wages." "Let us push the fools a little further..." It sucks like hell!

The level of frustration is felt on every level, we all feel the pinch. The problem is since everybody is at each others throats they get away with it. If we were to ban together and not chicken out, things would be so much better for all concerned. The concerned...the patients (who are most vulnerable) and ourselves (the ones that keeps the machine well oiled and working) If most of our mindset was different and forward thinking, the way we view ourselves in relation to our own contributions to the cause would be suprisingly life changing.

In every organization you will find the drips and the stups, that is just how it is. The problem is lack of focus and comraderie...if you work on building a good trusting foundation, things would fall into place. Everyone has a job function here, no one is better than the other. Really!

fuzzywuzzy, CNA · Jan 13, 2010

Maybe things aren't as bad in my facility as they are in many of yours, or maybe I just have a different outlook, but I don't feel downtrodden. I don't live in fear of losing my job because someone has stabbed me in the back. I don't feel like I have to try to throw other CNAs under the bus to save my own butt. I LIKE MY JOB. Yes, just like any other job, I wish I got paid more. And I get frustrated by the people I work with, whether they be CNAs, nurses, therapy, housekeeping, management, etc. I do think that the system in general is very flawed. But the bottom line is that I truly enjoy my work, and those minor annoyances are just that- annoyances. Yeah the people I described in the "personalities" thread can be annoying sometimes, but so are inconsiderate drivers, people who stand too close in line, my mother-in-law's passive aggressive comments, the people who sat behind me in the movie theater last night... lol. Just because my job isn't perfect doesn't mean I'm miserable all the time! And I almost feel like, amongst all the drama that's been going down in this forum lately, that actually liking my job is something to be ashamed of, or defensive about.

classykaren · Jan 13, 2010

It's the trickle down theory. I wish we had more unions for CNA's