CNS vs NP?

My thinking is VERY much in line with yours, Craig. I'm very happy to be having this converstaion with you -- even though I am so tired these day working 2 jobs that my thoughts are not as sharp as I would like them to be.

I agree that we may need to simply acknowledge that some nurses will never adopt a theoretical perspective to their practice. Unfortunately, formalizing that kind of split within nursing has never worked out well for us. But that's what might need to be done.

I TOTALLY agree that theory is badly taught -- usually by faculty members who are not experts in it, rather than by people who who have both a deep knowledgle of theory and philosophy and also a deep understanding of practice. I would LOVE to contribute something "great" to our discipline someday by writing something profound that would help move things forward -- but I am so tired all the time, working full time in a hospital and teaching theory and research part time that i don't have enough time/energy to try to be brilliant.

We need people in the practice arena to help to bridge the theory/practice gap. I doubt undergraduate instructors (most with only BSN's or MSN's) are going to be able to do it on their own. The Master's prepared clinical experts (and hopefully, the DNP's) need to help. People who work full time in education can not lead the way in the practice world. The practice leaders are needed to advance practice and show the world how the academics of the nursing discipline can be useful in the practice arena.

We need a whole different approach to the teaching of theory -- one that is more compatible with the realities of practice.

It's an up-hill battle ... but it is one we must fight if we are to have a profession that is more than just the completion of technical tasks. I also believe that the marriage of theory and practice is MUCH stronger than either one alone. We need that stronger level of expertise to be true experts and provide the best possible nursing care.

Oh no, you had to do it didn't you. LOL you said the DNP word. And I though hanging out here with the CNS's would protect me from the word.

I understand fully about being tired. Working a full time job, teaching and trying to find the time to remember if the paper I'm currently writing is in APA or MLA format. Oh my head hurts. Although I'd love to be able to publish that one, seminal paper, that would change the course of nursing education, I'm going to resign myself to the thrill I get when one of my clinical students, suddenly "gets it". The thrill of seeing their eyes light up and hear them go Ahha!

I've tried to get some discussions on similar topics started here, how do we get a grass roots movement started, get something that comes from those of us in the trenches and not from the ivory tower. I do find the comments that people have made about how the DNP is going to solve all our problems, that now, we'll have clinical providers teaching. I guess most people don't realize that the majority of their professors are working clinical jobs, so they can make the mortgage payment, but that's another topic all together.

Maybe that will be the topic of my Dissertation, at least that way I can guarantee that 5 people will read it.

Thanks for the discusion everyone. I think the powers that be could use this thread to show how a discusion can be carried out on a decisive topic, without it degrading into a mine is bigger than yours or moving into personal attacks.

Sorry about the "DNP" mention. I threw it in as an afterthought .... really.

Good luck with your current paper!

LOL I was just gving you a hard time.

This has been a good discussion.

Makes me wonder if I should go and eventually get my PhD, as some of my advisors have suggested. It was my goal at one time to become an FAAN and come up with a middle-range theory of my own. We'll see if that actually happens...

What's got me scared is that Im thinking about it. But in my house hell would be both wife and I working on dissertations at the same time.

The development of a Nursing theory to guide the development and implementation of nursing theory in a practical nursing workplace. how's that for a title.

Also - do you all think that with the current economic crisis and the cutting of nursing jobs (and not hiring to fill vacancies) that the task-oriented nurse is the employed nurse?

I work in five different hospitals and the nurses in the trenches don't have time to go to the bathroom, let alone realize what theory they are using...if I had to guess, it would the theory of "surviving this shift."

Being the cynic I am, I don't think the economy has changed that at all. I thin that is one reason it's waste to reach much of it in undergrad RN programs.

Ok Craig - I'll buy that. All I know is that there is NO theory being practiced by nurses nowadays. They are too busy putting in bizarre computerized care plans to come up with a nursing dx that means absolutely nothing and takes them away from caring for the pts.

I would have liked to learn more about theory, but there's so much to learn in such a short period of time that you really can't do it.

And I have to admit, like many I like working directly with patients and don't want to lose that...but if I were to focus more on theory development that would take me away from the bedside (though there are times when I sure wouldn't mind being away from the bedside! ) Unless I could do like some of our faculty and work as a visiting professor while still doing some work at the bedside...