Interesting - new "bedside manners" test for med students -

TejasDoc · Jun 21, 2004

I think this makes docs more like nurses in this light.
now they wanna know if you can talk to people. now after all these years they think it might be important to communicate. what, you mean you cant just throw the chart down the hall in a fit of rage and expect people to jump. enrolment might go down if word gets out.
you mean that you may have had to learn it but I could count on 2 fingers docs I know that practice decent communication skills. "grunt.. um... grrrr uhhhh whats his fluid status.. grrrr,ummmmm huh.. why cant I get into this computer... uhhhhh they told me how to about a year ago...come on I got a tee time... whats wrong with you people you only have 1000 patients"
I am not kidding I hear this stuff.

I agree that I think this test shows whether or not medical students can talk to people, but in the form of a history and physical exam. I think you're making this into more of a personality test, like I said before, and I don't think that's the point.

Plenty of people in medical school have poor people skills, I'm not going to disagree with you there. But there are a few specialties in medicine that these people might excel in, and therefore, I don't know if you can make this a requisite of entering school. And if you did make it a requirement, how would you test this?

As for the chart throwing ... that's childish too, nobody is going to disagree with that. Some people don't have any control of their temper. And the computer thing, I don't know about that, maybe the doc forgot how to use the computer. Anyway, these all seem like communication skills between a doctor and a nurse, and as far as I know, this isn't a tested skill on this particular exam.

The golf thing ... blah blah blah. The people on this board are obsessed with talking about doctors, their golfing and their donuts.

TD

gaspassah · Jun 22, 2004

well, before anesthesia school i played golf about 4-5 days a week. i wont throw stones in that direction.

d

BigDave · Jun 22, 2004

I think this is a trend that has been years in the making. I remember back maybe 10? years when they changed the MCAT to include an essay in an attempt to assess communication skills. There were also remarks concerning taking pre-meds who had non-traditional undergrad degrees (English was mentioned in the article) as long as they had their science pre-reqs.

I think the AMA realized a long time ago that making doctors out of geeks with pocket protectors and such did not lend to good bedside manners.

Unfortunately, having worked in three teaching facilities, I see that surgery residents (in particular) are taught another disfinctional behavior--the super-ego. Having a prior life as an avionics tech, I saw the exact same personality in another group of people: fighter pilots. I am told that both groups have to, above all else, be decisive. There is no room for hedging when you are a foot deep in someone's guts or about to frag someone.

(Supposedely, hedging is reserved for radiologists).

duckboy20 · Jun 22, 2004

This test is not really going to mean a thing. Sure they may 'sweat' taking the test. But how many will actually fail it? I mean good bedside manner is not a hard thing to do. Especially to pass one test. Pass the test and then the doctors who are apt to have bad bedside manner will then do so. I don't see this test as having much effect at all.

TejasDoc · Jun 23, 2004

I'm sure you've heard the surgery saying ...

"Sometimes in error ... never in doubt."

I do my fair share of moaning and groaning about the attitude of surgeons, but I think it takes a certain healthy amount of bravado to think that you can affect healing by cutting into the human body.

TD

Snowy · Jun 23, 2004

The golf thing ... blah blah blah. The people on this board are obsessed with talking about doctors, their golfing and their donuts.
TD

You're still talking about docs here, not donuts, right? :wink2:

My 2¢ on personality testing- I'd say some of that depends on the specialty a person is going in to. I have run in to doctors (even from the standpoint of being a patient a couple times before) where there was one doctor(orthopedist) years ago who genuinly cared; came in to the hospital on his day off to check on me, ask about life in general, and took a few minutes of his own time. For an unrelated ailment some time later, I had a doctor who was more concerned about lab tests results all the time and that was it.

Unless I've missed sometihng above- the original question pertained to opinions to these tests prior to admissions. I personally would not be for it. I know in situations such as job interviewing, etc in the past, I've always been super nervous when appying or trying for any job, but by the grade of God from both current and past employers, I've been able to prove every time I'm the ideal candidite if given the chance. For those who do lack bedside manner, maybe a communications class of some type. This is getting longer than I planned on. Hope I did not offend anyone

PA-C in Texas · Jun 24, 2004

Some of the comments in this thread just amaze me. I would like everyone to know that nurses certainly don't have the monopoly on good communication with their patients, and most physicians don't only see their patients as a collection of disease processes. For those who are saying that, it is the product of embittering experience rather than reality. Is this the inferiority complex speaking? For every example of bad medicine you can come up with, I can come up with an example of bad nursing. Its time to move beyond the egocentric world this website tends to induce and come to terms with the faults of your own perception.

I would also remind the nurses here that nursing has a rather well-established reputation as being a collection of *****es. So perhaps nurses need to become more like physicians, who can at least generally get along with each other. Yeah, I bet you don't like the way this sounds. Why? It is full of misconceptions and generalizations.

For those of you who have debated this on its merits, I thank you. For those of you who have engaged in self-inflation and chest beating at the expense of other professions, its time to grow up.

I personally think that this test will only add to the hassle without producing any identifiable benefits. While you can teach communication skills, I believe the way to produce physicians who perform better in this category has more to do with who is selected into medical school than who can pass a test.

I apologize in advance if I am coming across as harsh. Just moved to my new apartment and Convocation/Orientation/Registration is coming up soon. AND I have a horrible kidney infection. I really hope I can hack four more years of education.

susanna · Jun 24, 2004

I would also remind the nurses here that nursing has a rather well-established reputation as being a collection of *****es. So perhaps nurses need to become more like physicians, who can at least generally get along with each other. Yeah, I bet you don't like the way this sounds. Why? It is full of misconceptions and generalizations. QUOTE]
Okay, I like took some time to figure out what the ***s were. I was like As**s? Donkeys? Nurses? For some reason, I couldn't get it out of my head that you were saying people thought we were like a pack of donkeys. Okay, I'm a real dork. (But you could at least include the first letter next time so its easier for tired, clueless people like me.)
If I got it right, I didn't know that nurses were looked upon as b****es. Good to know though.
I want to see and take this test (Is it a written test only?). I think it would be useful in that, if people took it before medical school, they would be able to see how much improvement they need to make and what exactly is expected of them to be a good communicator as a health provider for our diverse world.

versatile_kat · Jun 24, 2004

Sorry, but I've rearely heard the profession of nursing being referred to as having a lot of bit**es. Maybe you're used to dealing with mainly critical care nurses ... now there's where the generalization's come in (aggressive, assertive, etc.), I know because I am one. And you're correct, there are a$$holes in every profession, so we should stop making blanket statements about MD's lack of interpersonal skills.

It would probably behoove almost EVERY profession that deal's in human contact to brush up on their communication skills. I can think of several teachers, postal workers, even hospital operators that could use a class or two on "bedside manners".

u-r-sleeepy · Jun 24, 2004

I personally think that this test will only add to the hassle without producing any identifiable benefits. While you can teach communication skills, I believe the way to produce physicians who perform better in this category has more to do with who is selected into medical school than who can pass a test.

Your response is more inline with part of my original post and thinking. I thought that if they could do a better job of "weeding out" the applicants devoid of a personality and reasonable communication skills BEFORE acceptance to medical school, that would be a much better approach. Should they be required to be "re-certified" every so many years also? Hahahaha!!! Sorry - just couldn't resist!

Sleeepy

sonessrna · Jun 25, 2004

Some of the comments in this thread just amaze me. I would like everyone to know that nurses certainly don't have the monopoly on good communication with their patients, and most physicians don't only see their patients as a collection of disease processes. For those who are saying that, it is the product of embittering experience rather than reality. Is this the inferiority complex speaking? For every example of bad medicine you can come up with, I can come up with an example of bad nursing. Its time to move beyond the egocentric world this website tends to induce and come to terms with the faults of your own perception.
I would also remind the nurses here that nursing has a rather well-established reputation as being a collection of *****es. So perhaps nurses need to become more like physicians, who can at least generally get along with each other. Yeah, I bet you don't like the way this sounds. Why? It is full of misconceptions and generalizations.
For those of you who have debated this on its merits, I thank you. For those of you who have engaged in self-inflation and chest beating at the expense of other professions, its time to grow up.
I personally think that this test will only add to the hassle without producing any identifiable benefits. While you can teach communication skills, I believe the way to produce physicians who perform better in this category has more to do with who is selected into medical school than who can pass a test.
I apologize in advance if I am coming across as harsh. Just moved to my new apartment and Convocation/Orientation/Registration is coming up soon. AND I have a horrible kidney infection. I really hope I can hack four more years of education.

I agree with you..there are a ton of nurses out there who have an inferiority complex and who are complete lazy b****es. However, there are also a large number of surgeons...anesthesiologists...etc who can act like real children and jacka**es. I think these (on both sides) are the ones who give both sides a bad name. I have been a nurse for 5 years and I'm in a CRNA program where I run into a variety of residents, staff MDs, PA-Cs, CRNAs etc etc etc....generally, people are civil and nice. It helps if you don't let me people bother you or you respond nicely to someone who is a complete jerk. This can be simply nicely asking someone to not shout around the patient etc. Instead of constantly blaming the other side (as I constantly hearing here!!) why don't we all admit we have bad days, there are bad eggs out there and WE AREN"T PLAYING THE GAME NO MORE!!!! That's what it is ....don't treat rudeness with rudeness unless it's absolutely warrented...and then...be civil about it. You cannot make generalizations about either side. :imbar