Before the Morning (Failed CRNE three times. what now?) - page 15

by yahy

103,260 Views | 246 Comments

I just received a bad news. My nursing career is over. Yes, I am no longer one of you, but I feel a need to share my story. I have failed the CRNE for the third time and honestly, I don't know what is there left for me. I know... Read More


  1. 8
    Just because someone has debt and finished a 4 year program, this should not entitle them to write the LPN exam. Those people in essence are being afforded special treatment which isn't fair to LPNs or the RNs who passed their exam within the three chances. We can agree to disagree, but it amazes me how some people are reasoning this issue. If that's the case, why can't experienced LPNs write the CRNE then? Maybe everyone who fails the exams should be allowed to keep writing until they pass.
    weemsp, Aurora77, AngelicDarkness, and 5 others like this.
  2. 10
    Quote from tahitianmoon
    I also believe that it is not an insult to LPN's to have a BScN student write the LPN exam. Last I recall the BScN program covers the LPN content plus a lot more. It is a very difficult program to get into and to finish, so anyone finishing the 4 year degree is very qualified in my opinion. A student of the 4 year program also has double the debt and took a longer route to being a nurse, thus they should get their chance to work in the field even if through the LPN.
    Ok, your reply is insulting. "they should get their chance to work in the field even if through the LPN"....see, that's why we PNs hate...RNs who seem to think being a PN is being less of a nurse then an RN. We are EQUALS. RNs are in no way superior to PNs. The RN program is longer, yes. But that does not mean RNs have more nursing skills. RNs and PNs can do all of the same controlled acts. The difference is not in skills taught, it's in theory. RNs learn nursing theory, and PNs, for the most part, do not. THAT is the big difference.

    A lot of would-be RNs who fail seem to think being a PN is not "as good" as being an RN. Like they are settling for being a PN because they couldn't pass the RN exam. That is not ok, and that attitude is very insulting to those of us who chose to become PNs rather then RNs.

    Also, finishing a 4 year degree doesn't mean someone is qualified to be a nurse. Lots of nursing students cheat, or squeak thier way by with a C or D average. That doesn't mean they automatically have enough knowledge to be a successful nurse. A C or D average doesn't mean they won't be good nurses either, but chances are if someone goes through their whole program and gets lower marks, they will likely have a harder time passing their exam. And if someone cheats their way through, they really don't deserve to write the exam.

    If someone can't pass the CRNE after 3 tries, then it is insulting to say they can still be successful PNs....don't you see that's like saying PNs aren't as smart as RNs, and like being a PN is something to settle for if one cannot pass the CRNE.

    Someone, who after finishing a 4 year program, cannot pass a very basic nursing exam in 3 tries needs more education, or to choose a new career. They do not deserve to write the PN exam.
    weemsp, Aurora77, Daisy_08, and 7 others like this.
  3. 4
    It seems as if the failed BScNs feel as if it is their right to suddenly "decide" to become LPNs. They chose to do the four year degree and knew there was a national exam at the end of it. They chose to incur the debt for four or more years at university.

    Now they are "choosing" to become LPNs. No.

    The PNs of Ontario need to find out why CNO is even permitting them to write CPNRE. There is no nursing shortage, so they can't use that old chestnut.

    We went through this mess in Alberta when the now defunct Capital Health recruited in the Phillipines and found out that their expensive, imported RNs failed to meet CARNA's educational guidelines. The local LPNs were very vocal in their concerns as were unit managers when these nurse were permitted to work as LPNs until their educational gaps were filled. Judging by this logic, any LPN who took the same required courses should have been permitted to attempt CRNE but were denied this opportunity based on their educational differences. Thankfully, this is no longer an option for IENs in Alberta. It caused too many issues in the hospitals. Locally educated LPNs were better prepared skills and in many cases knowledge wise than the overseas RNs.
    weemsp, loriangel14, OgopogoLPN, and 1 other like this.
  4. 6
    Quote from tahitianmoon
    I also believe that it is not an insult to LPN's to have a BScN student write the LPN exam. Last I recall the BScN program covers the LPN content plus a lot more. It is a very difficult program to get into and to finish, so anyone finishing the 4 year degree is very qualified in my opinion. A student of the 4 year program also has double the debt and took a longer route to being a nurse, thus they should get their chance to work in the field even if through the LPN.
    Qualified for what? All a university degree qualifies on for is to say they have a degree in whatever. The proof is in the pudding... The ultimate qualifier is the CRNE. Anyone can memorize a truckload of facts, but not everyone can then apply those memorized facts to a real-life situation. I've memorized a million facts about pharmaceuticals, but that doesn't qualify me to be a pharmacist, or even a pharmacy tech. I'd never consider insisting that I be given the opportunity to write either a pharmacy licensing exam or a pharmacy tech certification exam, because I'm NOT qualified.

    So you're another advocate of the consolation prize. What happens if these people go on to fail the CPRNE three times?

    Quote from joanna73
    Just because someone has debt and finished a 4 year program, this should not entitle them to write the LPN exam. Those people in essence are being afforded special treatment which isn't fair to LPNs or the RNs who passed their exam within the three chances. We can agree to disagree, but it amazes me how some people are reasoning this issue. If that's the case, why can't experienced LPNs write the CRNE then? Maybe everyone who fails the exams should be allowed to keep writing until they pass.
    When a person goes into this endeavor of becoming a nurse, they do it knowing that there's a big national exam at the end of it. They're also reminded many times during the course of their education that this big, national exam is coming and that there are only three chances to pass. After the first failure, what do they do? Do they analyze the exam itself and their results then adjust their studying to improve their outcomes? (Nursing process: Assess, diagnose, plan, implement, evaluate!) After a second failure, what do they do? I believe Einstein said it best: Insanity is the definition of continuing to do the same thing over and over but expecting different results. Colin Powell said, "There are no secrets to success. It is the result of preparation, hard work and learning from failure." That's as true of passing the CRNE as it is of anything else. Three attempts are more than enough. Perhaps we should change the rules for everything under the sun so that no one ever fails at anything.
    weemsp, Ginger's Mom, loriangel14, and 3 others like this.
  5. 2
    To those of you advocating for repeats....well, many of the people who were unsuccessful last June and October, it was no surprise, really. They either did not prepare properly, and/ or were lacking with both clinical and theoretical knowledge all the way through the program. Many of us passed, and we could see the people who were not going to make it long before they were unsuccessful with the CRNE.
    loriangel14 and Fiona59 like this.
  6. 0
    Hello, I would like to state if it is unfair or insulting for an “RN” graduate to write the RPN exam then how is it fair for an RPN to be able to write the CRNE after only 2 years of extra education? Shouldn’t every RPN go through the full 4 year RN program to be eligible?
    The scope of practice for both RN and RPN is significantly different, and if people state in the hospital the RPN can do exact the same thing as the RN then obviously that is not right. Both have different set of competencies and both cannot do the same controlled act. I do not think the CRNE is a basic exam, it requires a lot of critical thinking and is an overall difficult exam. I am sure so is the RPN exam, but overall both exams require you to study efficiently.
    My advice to anyone taking the CRNE in the future, take the exam seriously this is your future whether the school prepared you or not you are responsible for passing the exam. You know the set of rules you might not agree with it but in order to work as a nurse in Canada you have to play by the rules. Good luck in your careers which ever path you may choose.
  7. 5
    Quote from Life03
    Hello, I would like to state if it is unfair or insulting for an “RN” graduate to write the RPN exam then how is it fair for an RPN to be able to write the CRNE after only 2 years of extra education? Shouldn’t every RPN go through the full 4 year RN program to be eligible?
    The scope of practice for both RN and RPN is significantly different, and if people state in the hospital the RPN can do exact the same thing as the RN then obviously that is not right. Both have different set of competencies and both cannot do the same controlled act. I do not think the CRNE is a basic exam, it requires a lot of critical thinking and is an overall difficult exam. I am sure so is the RPN exam, but overall both exams require you to study efficiently.
    My advice to anyone taking the CRNE in the future, take the exam seriously this is your future whether the school prepared you or not you are responsible for passing the exam. You know the set of rules you might not agree with it but in order to work as a nurse in Canada you have to play by the rules. Good luck in your careers which ever path you may choose.
    Your post just illustrates what you don't know about PN education. We graduate with all the university transferable Arts classes required for electives in the BScN programme. Our education (or at least my schools) included a huge pharmacology course that was more indepth than the local RN programmes.

    It is widely acknowledged that the diploma programme running in Alberta and Ontario is based on the two year diploma RN programme that ended in 2009. So, two years of PN education, a successful CPNRE and 1700 hours of work experience (required here in Alberta) to enter year three of a nursing degree isn't unreasonable.

    Your profile doesn't give any background info on your nursing career. Did you pass CRNE or are you someone that "deserves" a crack at CPNRE just because?
    weemsp, Daisy_08, AngelicDarkness, and 2 others like this.
  8. 0
    Quote from Fiona59
    Your post just illustrates what you don't know about PN education. We graduate with all the university transferable Arts classes required for electives in the BScN programme. Our education (or at least my schools) included a huge pharmacology course that was more indepth than the local RN programmes.

    It is widely acknowledged that the diploma programme running in Alberta and Ontario is based on the two year diploma RN programme that ended in 2009. So, two years of PN education, a successful CPNRE and 1700 hours of work experience (required here in Alberta) to enter year three of a nursing degree isn't unreasonable.

    Your profile doesn't give any background info on your nursing career. Did you pass CRNE or are you someone that "deserves" a crack at CPNRE just because?

    Hi yes I passed the CRNE. Therefore I know what a struggle it can be to pass this exam. The RN diploma program in ontario was a 3 year program which ended in 2005, after 2005 all nurses required a degree. CNO makes the rules on who is eligible to write the RPN exam and the RN exam in Ontario. All I am trying to say its not unfair nor is it insulting to the RPN profession for an RN graduate to write that exam if they fail the CRNE. Thats all.
  9. 4
    You aren't an RPN, though, who went through the program....so to say it isn't insulting...well, how can you say that? I mean, if they wanted to write the RPN exam, why didn't they just enroll in that program in the first place?
    weemsp, Fiona59, loriangel14, and 1 other like this.
  10. 7
    Quote from Life03
    Hello, I would like to state if it is unfair or insulting for an “RN” graduate to write the RPN exam then how is it fair for an RPN to be able to write the CRNE after only 2 years of extra education? Shouldn’t every RPN go through the full 4 year RN program to be eligible?
    The scope of practice for both RN and RPN is significantly different, and if people state in the hospital the RPN can do exact the same thing as the RN then obviously that is not right. Both have different set of competencies and both cannot do the same controlled act. I do not think the CRNE is a basic exam, it requires a lot of critical thinking and is an overall difficult exam. I am sure so is the RPN exam, but overall both exams require you to study efficiently.
    My advice to anyone taking the CRNE in the future, take the exam seriously this is your future whether the school prepared you or not you are responsible for passing the exam. You know the set of rules you might not agree with it but in order to work as a nurse in Canada you have to play by the rules. Good luck in your careers which ever path you may choose.
    Actually, RPNs and RNs can do the same things, the same controlled acts. http://www.cno.org/en/learn-about-st...rpns/overview/

    Yes, scope of practice differs, but not in the skills RPNs and RNs can perform, but rather in the patient populations they generally care for. In general, RPNs take care of stable patients with predictable outcomes. RNs can take care of unstable patients with unpredictable outcomes. THAT is the difference. In terms of plain skills, hands-on skills, there is NO DIFFERENCE.

    I have the utmost respect for RNs and their decision to go to school for 4 years. I don't dispute that the content of the RN education covers all that the PN education does. However, it doesn't match up year to year. PNs, because we don't do all the theory, jump right in to patient care and skills. So at the end of our 2 year program, we are ready to function independantly, and to enter to practice. A BScN student, after completing 2 years, does NOT have teh same education as a PN. They are NOT ready to practice as RPNs or RNs.

    As for bridging, it is most certainly fair - if I do my RN, I am already a nurse. I already have nursing knowledge, and experience, and know how to safely perform patient care. THAT is why I can do the last 2 years of the RN program. It is more then "fair".

    I suggest you read the CNO module on the differences between RNs and RPNs.
    kazer, weemsp, Daisy_08, and 4 others like this.


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