New Grad Programs: Advantage of MSN & high GPA?

Testa Rosa, RN · Dec 21, 2012

From my experience, high GPA and MSN with without experience matters very little. Having the RN and BSN with some certs and experience and connections willing to write great letters of recommendations are whats important at entry point.

Half of our honors/top GPA students are jobless or underemployed and considered Old Grads now (I graduated 3 years ago). This includes young men with 4.0 GPA's and experience as CNA/transport techs--usually the first to get hired. Yes, it's that bad in the Bay Area.

I have cried with wonderful, well thought of preceptee's with top grades and experience having to leave to other states to find their first job because they had student loans due. One had to leave to the East Coast the week after his honeymoon and he has a prior MBA. He did an accelerated MSN and has huge bills waiting for him. His spouse has the benefits and will need to remain here in the Bay Area.

In my humble opinion, It's the RN and BSN that count at entry point. That, coupled with certifications, connections and prior experience along with hard work applying everywhere and walking your resume in and a BIG dose of good luck/right timing. It took me a year three years ago. I hear it's getting slightly better now, but not much. I would not pay for an accelerated or MSN program given the current job market, not just in CA but most everywhere. In my opinion, these candidates bring nothing more to the table the first couple years unless they have had prior nursing experience. I've heard some nurse managers believe the accelerated students are lacking in skills/confidence but I've not noticed this to be the case as they get the same amount of skills time as I did--but bias is hard to fight. I also believe there is a bias against entry level MSN's as several of the hiring managers in my hospital became MSN's after years of work, some slowly climbing the ranks from the old diploma programs.

BSN is the standard now to get into an acute care hospital, although ADN's with contacts/experience can still get hired it is rare. I would recommend getting a BSN, working a little at anything you can find and then going for an MSN. Just my opinion tho. Good luck.

xInspiredx · Dec 22, 2012

^Thank you for the very helpful post! :)

From my experience, high GPA and MSN with without experience matters very little. Having the RN and BSN with some certs and experience and connections willing to write great letters of recommendations are whats important at entry point.

Since this is a new grad program, are you referring to CNA experience? If so, would experience as a student nurse for one or two semesters count too?

I just figured that I would be able to use the more advanced MSN courses to my advantage (or at least, somehow).

SoCalGalRN · Dec 23, 2012

Well the more advanced masters level courses only start after you get your license and are expected to be working as an RN. I have two semesters left to complete my msn entry and I will also complete one year of working as an RN at that time. With my msn and one year of RN experience I think my job prospects will be pretty good.

b_RN · Dec 23, 2012

I have to second the opinion that a MSN does not get you much in the California job market as a new grad with no experience. The problem is, if you don't find a job as a RN right after licensure, then when you graduate with your master's degree, it has been 2 years since your RN training. You're really a stale new grad at graduation from a master's entry program. The master's clinicals are completely different. The two interviews I went on, when the nurse manager realized that it had been 2 years since I trained as a floor RN, you could almost see the light go out of their eyes.

If I had it to do over, I would have gotten a cna job asap while in school. I think that would have helped more than my high gpa or my master's degree.

Testa Rosa, RN · Dec 24, 2012

I have a dear friend who is an entry level MSN who had to leave CA to get her first job in AZ. She was unemployed for a year after graduation. She volunteered in another country for 3 months did some sort of RN refresher program after which she landed the job in AZ. At this point in time she feels her MSN still lacks value as she applies to jobs in CA weekly -- she now has one year of experience as a med surg RN and feels ready to do something different, but she has yet to get anyone to call in for an interview back in CA. I am curious how the prior MSN student poster expects to get their one year of RN experience when the job market is so tight for RN's in the Bay Area?

Rosa

SoCalGalRN · Dec 24, 2012

I did not know that other msn entry programs allow you to finish your master's without experience working as an RN. In my program we have a couple semesters after completing the prelicensure work to get jobs. If we are not working as an RN, we must take a year off and gain employment before we can continue to finish the master's program. It seems like a terrible idea to graduate with an MSN and no work experience. I can imagine why those grads have little luck getting jobs. We all got our jobs without degrees in nursing, just licenses, and the understanding that we would be in school for another year to year and a half.

LaRoseRN · Dec 24, 2012

I completed a generalist (not NP, or specialty based) direct-entry MSN at a cal state school. No previous healthcare experience other than volunteering. Myself and my classmates all had jobs within a year of graduating. None of us had to relocate out of CA, although some did move South and North of the Bay Area. Fields of entry included peds/onc, public health, er, cardiac step-down, tele, women's health, good ol' med/surg...one classmate went on to get her FNP while working her first year in ER and now works in primary care family practice. We graduated in 2011. Can't say a direct-entry MSN guarantees a job or gives much of an edge, but it certainly didn't seem to be a hindrance to our careers by any means.

LaRoseRN · Dec 24, 2012

PS: I definitely agree that working as a CNA is probably one of the best ways to get an edge as a new grad!

Testa Rosa, RN · Dec 24, 2012

I absolutely agree an MSN is an asset; especially if you can obtain it from a Cal State school without the huge $$$ outlay of a private nursing school. Cudos to you! But those programs require the students to be top in their class grade wise and satisfy certain pre-reqs other private programs don't require (and possibly why your group was so much more attractive to a hiring managers as a whole). However, in my experience in my hospital facility, there is no edge at entry to a MSN, which is what the original poster was asking.

I am very impressed with those hiring stats LaRoseRN and very much hope it's an indication of hiring getting better at entry point now than it was three years ago when I graduated. However, I do not see the same hiring stats from the new MSN graduating from my local private nursing school, nurses I've precepted now and have a vested interest in and who I've tried to bring on board with no success.

In my facility, I'm actually am seeing the opposite in that there is a bias against them from a couple hiring managers I spoke with in trying to get my precept hired. These tend to be older nurses who worked years prior to getting their MSN's or PHd's. They clearly state a pref. for RN's who worked as CNA's and who have achieved at least BSN's--and who are interested in gaining a MSN after working the floors for three years (and not just clinical hours because my precept has that, but actual paid nursing hours). They have a bias and therefore will not hire my freaking amazing two language speaking precept who they've also stated will make a wonderful nurse in the same breath. This personal experience is why this topic drew me to post in the first place.

So this has been my experience from which my opinion has been formed. Therefore I recommend to the original poster rather than spend $$$ for a private nursing school MSN they need to pursue experience, make contacts and gain excellent letters of recommendation with at least a BSN to gain a job at entry point.

LaRoseRN · Dec 24, 2012

Therefore I recommend to the original poster rather than spend $$$ for a private nursing school MSN they need to pursue experience, make contacts and gain excellent letters of recommendation with at least a BSN to gain a job at entry point.

I second that. I do think my class was very unique, we were small, and the competition to get accepted to the program was SUPER fierce (state school tuition pulls a lot of apps!) so our group had a lot of fascinating life experiences/background coming in.

I only got called for ONE interview and that was all I needed. Once I had that face-to-face opportunity I took it for all it was worth and landed the job. I believe many of my classmates were in similar situations: they lept at whatever chances presented and excelled from there. The exceptions were the few who had been working as CNA's already. They had jobs lined up at their hospitals before graduation.

So probably a large part of our hiring stats were due to the type of student population my program recruited and that we were able to maneuver competitively in this rough job market for a variety of reasons.

No one really makes a big deal of my having a MSN as a bedside RN and neither do I. At my hospital everything is so seniority based that it really seems to all come down to how many years you've worked on the unit..not what letters come after your name...but you do get little pay differentials for said letters. Right now I am learning all I can and trying my best to grow professionally as a competent RN. I do hope to put my MSN to good use later in my career and felt it was the best path for my situation (low cost, quicker completion, no 2-year wait list like w/ the ADN program, able to qualify for federal aid for grad school)

So, yes, your best bet is probably:

~lowest cost

~BSN

~work in the field as a CNA

~network like crazy

But there may be other life circumstances for you to consider that will skew those around. Good luck!!

SFNewGrad · Jan 11, 2013

Hi everyone. I graduated with honors from an ABSN program, I also have many years of CNA experience. I have been job searching for 8 months. I have found that NEITHER matters. With regards to the ABSN program the problem is that ABSN graduates do simply not have the same number of clinical hours that a graduate from a BSN program has. Hiring Managers are more concerned with experience than GPA, and clinical hours are viewed as the student version of experience. Regarding working as a CNA, I have not found that that amounts to a hill of beans. You might be able to leverage CNA work in regards to time-management skills, or the ability to work well with unlicensed personnel, but I guarantee you that CNA work is not viewed as being equivalent to clinical hours or experience as an RN. I would recommend finding clinics where you can volunteer and joining professional organizations that would allow you to network via local meetings. The fact is that this is currently an employer's market, regardless of whether or not you are a New Grad RN, or any New Grad in any field. Consequently, employers can find exactly what they're looking for. I would also not recommend currently that one enters an ABSN nor an entry level Masters program, as my experience is that they are costly and do not prepare you with the credentials to be competitive in the current market.