? about getting LPN and externing. - page 2

I was under the impression that if you got your LPN you couldn't extern because of scope of practice rules. I called a hospital yesterday and was told that if I had my LPN I could make more money... Read More

  1. by   pattchez
    I think there is some confusion about the extern role. The Arizona State Board of Nursing describes the role of the extern in their advisory opinion titled "Supervision of Unlicensed Nurse Externs by a Registered Nurse." If one has their LPN license ...then they are legally obligated to follow the rules as an LPN ...not an extern. So if one works under their LPN license then they are no longer working as an extern as described in the SBON advisory opinion. The key thing is that externs are considered "unlicensed" whereas LPN are licensed. Here is the web site to the Az SBON and then go to resources, advisory opinions.
  2. by   Curious1alwys
    Well, to me, if they are encouraging you to get your LPN AND be an extern, they are going to abuse you. My instict is, you'll be doing much more LPN work and not seeing so much RN work. I'd be weary of that.. If you want see what an RN does, go nurse extern. If you want experience going on your own, or if you need more $$, be an LPN. Personally, while still in the stress of school, I like the "laid back" position. I don't want to be stressed to the max while still in school, thank you very much.

    I heard what I heard strait out of the Nurse Educator/Recruitor's mouth. She specifically said that you cannot be an LPN AND an extern at the same time due to role confusion. Maybe that is just on the floor I am on but she sure acted like it was the norm.

    I think if they want you to get your LPN they want you to take patients, on your own. Seems like you wouldn't get much time observing the RN level skills. If I wanted to do both, and could, I would extern on one floor and work LPN on another. And not tell anyone I was an LPN!!! (can you do that?)
    Besides, as an extern you don't have to fork out hundreds of dollars to take the NCLEX for LPN. To each his own, though.
  3. by   Curious1alwys
    Quote from pattchez
    I think there is some confusion about the extern role. The Arizona State Board of Nursing describes the role of the extern in their advisory opinion titled "Supervision of Unlicensed Nurse Externs by a Registered Nurse." If one has their LPN license ...then they are legally obligated to follow the rules as an LPN ...not an extern. So if one works under their LPN license then they are no longer working as an extern as described in the SBON advisory opinion. The key thing is that externs are considered "unlicensed" whereas LPN are licensed. Here is the web site to the Az SBON and then go to resources, advisory opinions.

    :yeahthat:
    They are bending the rules for a reason....
  4. by   cardiacRN2006
    Our externships were after 2nd semester and we had a choice. Either summer extern at a hospital or work as an LPN. I didn't think you could do both. Too much ambiguity to risk your license as an LPN if you choose summer externship.

    Lots of bennefits to both, that's for sure.
  5. by   CrazyPremed
    Quote from pattchez
    I think there is some confusion about the extern role. The Arizona State Board of Nursing describes the role of the extern in their advisory opinion titled "Supervision of Unlicensed Nurse Externs by a Registered Nurse." If one has their LPN license ...then they are legally obligated to follow the rules as an LPN ...not an extern. So if one works under their LPN license then they are no longer working as an extern as described in the SBON advisory opinion. The key thing is that externs are considered "unlicensed" whereas LPN are licensed. Here is the web site to the Az SBON and then go to resources, advisory opinions.
    Thanks for the info. It can be checked out at this link. This is actually an opinion statement referring to unlicensed students working as nurse externs. It does not refer to those who choose to work as externs after obtaining their LPN.

    There is much confusion to this. Different hospitals have different policies. Banner not only allows people to extern, but they pay more and give more responsibility to those who have apply as externs with their LPN. Here is a link to their program which clearly states this. You have all of the scope of practice of an LPN, plus that of an RN extern. One of the users on this board actually worked as an LPN/RN extern at Good Sam in this role.

    Mayo clinic has a nurse extern program that states nothing against eligibility if a person has his/her LPN and wants to work as an extern. Here is a link to their program.

    Ultimately, it sounds as though the general consensus is that a person can work as an extern with an LPN. I would personally contact the hospitals for more information. For some, getting the LPN would add too much work and cost too much. For others, it may be a great opportunity to jump into the world of nursing and ease the shell shock of being a new grad, or start in a certain specialty. I guess that it depends upon one's goals.

    CrazyPremed
  6. by   pattchez
    It is great this is topic creating a lot of discussion about externs. I encourage students or LPNs to examine the SBON advisory opinion about RN supervising externs ...as it does speak to students -- (do not have a nursing license) wishing to work as externs while in their nursing program. If a student in a RN program opts to take the LPN option become licensed as a LPN then the SBON will hold them to the standards of practice of their LPN license. If the hosptial wishes to call this person as a "extern" that is a hospital label but I assure you the SBON will see you as a LPN if you have that license and something happens. I served on the SBON Scope of Practice commmittee for 4 years (2001-2005) and the "extern advisory opinion" was discussed at length in this committee. My understanding is that the extern role was developed for students in a nursing program who wished to get more exposure to the clincal setting. Hosptials support the extern role as a recruiting tool with the plan to hire the extern after graduation from the RN program. It can be a win-win situation as long as the extern has a good preceptor who is willing to facilitate learning experiences for the extern.
  7. by   Calzonan RN
    Thanks Pattchez, you gave some great advice!!
    This is the exact reason I want to extern, to gain more exposure to the hospital without the responsibility of an LPN. I think if I had been working as a CNA or something else in the hospital and was familiar with everything I would definitely want to get my LPN and have a wider scope to work under as an extern. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to work while going to school (6 kids at home have made it difficult) but I really want to get more experience outside of clinicals. Externing seemed to fit the bill for me. And it is a 'win-win' situation because I'd probably be pretty loyal to wherever I extern and try and get hired on as a new grad. By externing first, I get the training that they want on their equipment/computers etc. and I get the experience.
    I'm glad this link led to a lot of discussions. I knew I could come to this board and get some great advice!! You guys are the greatest!!
    Keli

close