5 Year BSN Program vs. 4 year

RNHawaii34 · Jun 14, 2007

i'm curious to know your thoughts about the new requirement for 5 years of study to bsn here in the philippines. does the extra year offer the promise of a more qualified graduate or will it act as a "weeding out" process to discourage all but the most determined students to complete their bsn?
i understand 10 years ago the 5 year program was the standard and later reduced to 4 years. effective this month, the new students will have a 5 year requirement.
your thoughts?
hoss

i am curious too: is the bsn curriculum will take 5 years? i am not aware of this that's why. if so? what courses/classes are to be added? i don't agree with 5 years because 4 years is long enough. i think what they should do is to "weed out" unnecessary classes not even related to nursing, and focus more on science/biology classes, also focus on nursing skills class....more intensive writing classes. even if they put the nursing students to 5 years of education, the quality of nursing grads wont improve if they don't do a major changes in their system..they need to hire more competent educators, increase pay for clinical instructors. imho, no one will stop anybody from studying nursing if they want to, regardless of the reason they may have. i agree that being a nurse, will actually improve somebody's quality of life. i think each school should examine their ways of teaching their students, see the rate of turn overs of educators working for them, etc. 5 years? thats nothing, new students, especially the second coursers will still keep coming to get that nursing degree...

Hoss · Jun 14, 2007

Yes, it is correct that the new BSN candidates will have to complete 5 years of study to become a nurse at a Philippine College. The incomming candidates (including 2nd coursers) will have to meet the new standards effective this June.

Your comment that those who wish to truely pursue nursing will not be stopped by 5 years is quite true. However, I just wonder if this is an effort to try to enhance the quality of education or simply discourage new students?

Mcgyver · Jun 15, 2007

What...it is not the length of study which is important, as they say QUALITY matters!

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Jun 15, 2007

My own non-expert assessment of the problems faced by nursing education in the Philippines are:

1. Too many nursing programs, many of which do not provide enough hospital or clinical exposure to nursing students because of a disproportionately lower number of hospitals that can offer appropriate patient case loads to meet the requirements for learning even basic nursing skills. Poor government oversight of nursing school quality. Extreme leniency in allowing the establishment of new nursing schools.

2. Unqualified clinical instructors with little clinical nursing experience because most of the seasoned nurses have left for overseas jobs.

3. Nursing schools accomodating large number of students despite lack of adequate number of faculty to allow for adequate supervision of students' progress, and lack of adequate facilities for practicum sites to enhance learning of even basic nursing skills.

4. Low wages for nurses causing a vicious cycle of schools graduating nurses whose main intention is to seek overseas jobs. Graft and corruption, unstable ecomomic and political climate causing distrust of the national government. Citizens looking into overseas opportunities to ensure a bright future for themselves and their families.

5. Overall, low passing rate in the NLE for 1st time examinees (likely because of the above reasons stated in numbers 1-3).

Now, based on the above, I can't seem to understand how adding another year to the BSN program will help.

Hoss · Jun 16, 2007

PinoyRN;

As you are a well seasoned RN and now NP, I consider your opinions not only "expert" but spot on! Your observations about the quality of education raises concerns, indeed. I searched long and hard at the few yardsticks I had to measure by to select the school where my hard earned pension would be spent. The only measure available was the posting of the NLE passing rates by schools, as well as engineering and other degree programs. In addition I personally visited the Deans of Nursing at 4 Universities and questioned the programs as best i could. I concluded that here in Baguio St. Luis Univ. and Univ. of Cordilleras were consistently in the top 10 in Nursing, Civil Eng., Elec. Engineering, Law...etc.

I was astounded to see "BIG" colleges here with NLE passing rates of 20%-40% consistently over a few years period!! This is in comparison to UP Manila, St. Thos., SLU, UCordilleras demonstrating 80-100% passing rates!! (I know there are a few other outstanding schools as well so forgive me for not mentioning all of them who deserve top 10 recognition.)

So my thought is this. The US Govt has an approved list of colleges and Universities that the Montgomery GI bill and Veterans Chapt 35 Education for eligibility of students to receive tuition for attendance at schools here in the Philippines. I am not sure what their standards of acceptability are, but at least it is a start to weed out diploma mills and "start ups" that so often rob students of legitimate education. If they are not an approved school, no tuition is granted. Why shouldn't CGFNS set up a criteria for accreditation that would examine courses given, clinical staff/student ratios, NLE passing rates etc...that require a college to rank consistently in the 70 percentile range or greater to receive CGFNS accreditation??

The Philippines seem dis-inclined to enact any penalties for poor performance by the schools, so I believe that if CGFNS steps in and sets min standards of achievement, it would take away the possibility of corruption and falsification of data as CGFNS is not a Philippine Govt organization.

Since the VisaScreen process delves deeply into the courses a student takes, it would be a natural progression to include a few other standards of performance to set up an accreditation system for Nursing Schools. If the school fails to meet the standards, then CGFNS would not provide the approvals necessary for USA employment. That would not in anyway interfere with a Nurses ability to practice anywhere else in the world, simply that they would be ineligible for US employment.

IMHO

Hoss

sinagbayan · Jun 17, 2007

I agree with the assessment of pinoyRN and the suggestions of Hoss, but I also believe that quality cannot be soley guaranteed by even competent teachers and affiliations with credible hospitals. For a profession like nursing, competency and mastery goes beyond the confines of the classroom and the breadth of textbooks, refining those skills in the clinical set-up partnered with strong academic formation can never be overemphasized. That is why for me, I favor the 5 year BSN program.

This is precisely the reason why doctors have four years of pre-med, four years of medicine, one year as PGI, then MD board, then another three years residency before finally becoming a consultant and establishing a clinic (that is if they pass their diploate exams in their chosen specializations and sub-specialiations).

Quality is a long process, something honed by time and experience. In literature, we call them the classics.

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Jun 19, 2007

Hoss: I am not sure if CGFNS have the resources to examine each nursing school in the Philippines and grant a "seal of approval" for those that meet the standards of a decent NLE passing rate, qualified nursing instructors, and adequate clinical practicum sites. But that's a good thought. I also believe that most of our citizens back there in the Philippines know which nursing schools are good. We do have excellent nursing programs across all provinces in the country and many would like to have the chance to obtain their degree there. However, it is unfortunate that these schools are known to not accept students with a prior college degree leaving this population of nursing student wannabe's out to settle for the lesser performing schools. I personally feel that the good nursing schools should not have such a narrow criteria for admission. Many second degree students have the motivation and the brains to handle nursing school. I will not be surprised if they end up being NLE board exam topnotchers if they are allowed to thrive in an excellent learning environment.

Sinagbayan: I agree that another year will make a difference in acquiring skills necessary for entry to the nursing profession. However, would the quality of clinical practicum sites remain the same? Are students going to share patient loads with one another because there aren't enough cases for everyone? Are students actually going to be allowed to provide bedside care to an actual patient or are they merely going to serve as "decorations" in the hallways of these hospitals in their starched white uniforms? Students do learn by being able to use their senses in the clinical sites. They need to see, feel, hear, and talk to actual patients, perform actual bedside procedures to be able to retain even the most basic of nursing skills. This also hones their critical thinking skills necessary to function as a "thinking" nurse vs one that just follows orders. This opportunity should be available to them while they are students and not once they are out to face the world of professional nursing.

RNHawaii34 · Jun 19, 2007

hoss: topnotchers if they are allowed to thrive in an excellent learning environment.
are students actually going to be allowed to provide bedside care to an actual patient or are they merely going to serve as "decorations" in the hallways of these hospitals in their starched white uniforms? .

this really made me laugh...but it is true!!!!!! boy, i missed that white apron and cute little:nurse: nurse hat!!! :lol2: :rotfl: :chuckle seriously, 5 years is too long....

Lorodz · Jun 21, 2007

wow what a very deep conversation you have guys. let me sea. ive just graduated from a four year nursing course and as i have observed, it is not necessary to add 5 years to the nursing curriculum. its the subjects that are not related to nursing should be removed.

jmolinaRN · Jun 21, 2007

Interesting topic here.

IMHO, adding 1 year means adding more opportunities for students to be exposed to areas. I am a fresh taker of the NLE and I'm sure that many fresh takers will agree that the June`07 NLE was mostly *not* based from books but on Real Life situations that Nurses would face the moment they start working.

This +1 year should give students more practice (apart from their usual exposure) and should take advantage of it. PinoyNP, I am aware that your quite a veteran in terms of Nursing practice. I'm sure you'll agree that Nursing education here in the Phils have somewhat declined as compared to what you had years ago. As with what you said, not enough cases? I think that depends mainly in your school. Honestly, from my School, I was not able to 'get' my actual case since 10 students have already made claim over it, I had to look for another one from a 'log book' that we had. I had only 2 actual deliveries and the rest were given to me from the 'log book'.

This 5 year program, how does it work? If its all the same that sloppy instructors will dismiss students early or are too afraid of making students do what they're supposed to do (giving meds) or sit in a corner with students while reviewing for NCLEX and other foreign exams, might as well stick with 4 years.

I also agree with Lorodz, get rid of all unnecessary subjects... Colleges and Universities are only using these as means of getting more money out of students. Its highway robbery.

Oh: Quoting PinoyNP: "I personally feel that the good nursing schools should not have such a narrow criteria for admission. Many second degree students have the motivation and the brains to handle nursing school. I will not be surprised if they end up being NLE board exam topnotchers if they are allowed to thrive in an excellent learning environment."

Yeah, tell me about it. I got in a class of 2nd coursers that made me competitive enough to get through the pre-board exams that wiped out more than half of our population (Graduating students). I think they're even a good source of motivation and guidance for younger students.

Advanced Practice Columnist / Guide · Jun 22, 2007

I remember back when I was a nursing student, our instructors would tell us that they received better training in nursing during their time. Most of the instructors I had went through the 5-year BSN curriculum. So if they thought that our nursing instruction back then was lacking, then the status of nursing education now must have seriously deteriorated with all the news of newly established nursing schools with some without a qualified dean to provide direction to their nursing programs.

I think we've all established that another year of "quality nursing instruction" is well worth it. But again, the key word is "quality" because another year of nursing school in a learning institution where none of the administrators and faculty feel any accountability for the effectiveness of student instruction will only be of benefit to greedy and corrupt school administrators who are already seeing the opportunity to make huge profits with this new plan. It is easy to look back at the time when our nursing programs were 5 years in length and we were producing nurses well prepared to face the professional role and hope those happy times will come back. However, the problems we are facing now are far more complex and merely adding a year to the BSN program will not solve any of these problems.

And I am just stating this as a personal opinion. My years of practicing nursing has nothing to do with how I came up with such an opinion. I also feel that it is perfectly OK to disagree - that's what the point of this open forum is about.