Why don't people take LPNs seriously?

[Hellostudentnurssee]

I understand that as "nurses", we're the bottom of the food chain. I don't want to sound like a cry baby or put myself or other LPNs on a pedestal but I'm tired of people with the "you're just an LPN attitude". I do know many RNs that have been supportive and understanding. I know when you're a nurse, you have tough skin (and I usually do) but there are some days (like today) when it just gets to you.

I've been going to school for a long time - it's almost been 10 years from when I graduated high school. I've just been trying to get into any nursing school. I got my AA degree, became a CNA, worked, had to take pre-reqs over, and then the 2 years of LPN school. Now that it's all over, I realize how HARD it was...everything - emotionally, mentally, physically...especially if you had those really difficult instructors who made you feel incompetent. Anyhoo, the "problem" is mainly family members. I don't expect people to jump at my feet and floor me with compliments or attention but it's nice to be acknowledged. But if they don't, no big deal. I'm happy with myself with this accomplishment. I do get alot of "oh it's just LPN, no big deal" or "it's not an RN or BSN, so it's technically not a nurse yet." I do get what they're saying bc I have high expectations for myself and I know I'm not done in my career path but it really IRRITATES me and I think it's bc someone degrading the hard work I went through. Any kind of nursing school is HARD WORK. No offense but it's not like in CNA school...nothing compared to do that. It's almost like, "how dare you say that?" I think it's also a cultural thing to bc in my culture, it's like a stereotype to be a nurse. Anyhoo, sorry to be a debbie downer and vent but it really irritates me and I need to use my assertive, nursing communication "I-statement" skills now, should I? :)

[BrandonLPN, LPN]

So the studies are bogus because you think you can disprove their methodology?

I question the conclusions people come to based on said studies. Correlation does not equal causation.

[nursel56]

So the studies are bogus because you think you can disprove their methodology?

You need to provide a link to at least one study that proves your point, which was:

facilities with more RN's than LPN's having higher levels of patient care.

Sidroc, first of all, you cut and pasted that directly from one source, which is shoddy. You made a statement and then looked for something that sounded like it might work. If you want to be taken seriously, find the source of the actual article, not the citation.

Second, none of them address the problem as stated by you.

Thirdly, any study that comes to the conclusion that something is "associated with" something else doesn't prove anything.

[tothepointeLVN, LVN]

So the studies are bogus because you think you can disprove their methodology?

You haven't provided any studies just alluded to them. BTW most of them we've probably read before. Most have a big bias and tend to compare BSN to ADN nurses or BSN nurses to UAP rather than RN to LPN/LVN/RPN directly. There's such a big variation in scope of practice for the aforementioned titles from state to state vs the relatively stable SOP for an RN so it makes hard to mine data.

[sidroc]

You already have belittled your coworkers. You've judged the LPNs you've worked with based on where they went to school. You've judged them for not having enough motivation to get their RN. Maybe (hopefully) you sing a different tune in person, but your condescending attitude will com through regardless. As for your "points", what do you mean? What points. I went to a vocational school, and am a darn good nurse. So are many of my fellow LPNs.

I do judge it that way, but I would never go up to another member of staff and belittle them, although everyone who has asked me my opinion at work I have been honest with and I was yelled at by more than one LPN. But that all changed working in a hospital setting, now most nurses the subject has came up around nod their head in understanding.

[sidroc]

To be a skillful nurse you must have the ability to think critically. This includes scientific studies, journals, etc. Every year a new study comes out that discredits last years study. Therefore we as nurses must use our brains and think for ourselves.

So scholarly journals are now not sources of reliable information? I will remember that on the next big breakthrough in medical technology and I expect you to call it wrong.

[sidroc]

You need to provide a link to at least one study that proves your point, which was:

I have done that.

[sidroc]

You need to provide a link to at least one study that proves your point, which was:

Sidroc, first of all, you cut and pasted that directly from one source, which is shoddy. You made a statement and then looked for something that sounded like it might work. If you want to be taken seriously, find the source of the actual article, not the citation.

Second, none of them address the problem as stated by you.

Thirdly, any study that comes to the conclusion that something is "associated with" something else doesn't prove anything.

First of all, How I got my sources is not of concern the information contained is. My ProQuest account is currently inaccessible so I did the best I could.

Second, they directly address the problem of RN staff vs LPN and other staff.

Thirdly, if I gave you a study that said not being turned Q2 is associated with skin problems, you wouldn't be telling me that correlation is not causation. Thats a copout.

[BrandonLPN, LPN]

And remember, a "higher proportion" of RNs could mean a higher proportion versus CNAs. Or "med techs". Or housekeeping. Of course any LTC facility with lower nurse to resident ratios will have better outcomes. But this proves nothing re: RNs having better outcomes vs LPNs. If were going to be brutally honest and really break things down, I'd say there's probably a higher statistical level of competence among LPNs in LTC than RNs in LTC. A higher percentage of RNs in LTC are new grads. A higher percentage of LPNs in LTC are "veterans" in the field. Experience trumps education every time.

[sidroc]

And remember, a "higher proportion" of RNs could mean a higher proportion versus CNAs. Or "med techs". Or housekeeping. Of course any LTC facility with lower nurse to resident ratios will have better outcomes. But this proves nothing re: RNs having better outcomes vs LPNs. If were going to be brutally honest and really break things down, I'd say there's probably a higher statistical level of competence among LPNs in LTC than RNs in LTC. A higher percentage of RNs in LTC are new grads. A higher percentage of LPNs in LTC are "veterans" in the field. Experience trumps education every time.

These studies are talking about RN's vs other nursing staff and it is not using RN to refer to LPN.

[tanna898]

So scholarly journals are now not sources of reliable information? I will remember that on the next big breakthrough in medical technology and I expect you to call it wrong.

You missed my point entirely. Get out of your box and open your mind. And yes I probably will question the study if it is bias or to narrowly focused. Just because it made it to a journal doesn't make it the gospel. That's why they are peer reviewed and questioned and commonly discredited.

[nursel56]

First of all, How I got my sources is not of concern the information contained is. My ProQuest account is currently inaccessible so I did the best I could.

Use Google Scholar.

Second, they directly address the problem of RN staff vs LPN and other staff.

No, they don't.

Thirdly, if I gave you a study that said not being turned Q2 is associated with skin problems, you wouldn't be telling me that correlation is not causation. Thats a copout.

That's a straw man argument.

When you make a statement of fact here, it's really expected that you've done your homework and can readily point us in the direction of actual links to real information from unbiased sources. You've done none of that. If you aren't willing to have some integrity behind your pronouncements, just don't make them.

[tothepointeLVN, LVN]

I can post more later if wanted.

Ahh the old cherry picking the quotes. The reality is your still a student and don't really know what your talking about half the time. You've never been a nurse of any kind and your high on the possibility of your future that you think its a great idea to come onto a public forum and insult a whole class of nurses many of whom despite your "studies" you'll be working alongside

You originally stated the only reason you were a CNA was because there was a "law" in WA making you so your "quotes" are not credible. Also these studies are all very old and may well be out of date.