Why do people drop out of AZ nursing schools?

Nemhain · Oct 17, 2006

Hello all,
I was reading the 'drop out' thread and it seems as if a good percentage of people drop out of NS during the first or second semester. For those of you who are making it through (or had to drop out), what can we prenursing students do to be more prepared? Should we work less, exercise, take patho before we start?
Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
CrazyPremed

I didn't go to school in AZ, but I think this can apply to any state...

People dropped out of my program the first two semesters, because they either couldn't handle the workload or just found out that nursing isn't for them. I think the latter reason could be resolved by informing pre-nursing students about what nurses actually do... it's surprising that people sign up to do nursing, but really have no idea what nurses do. We had 5 people leave my program in the first 4 weeks 'cause they were no longer interested. If you're a pre-nursing student, but you're a little foggy on the duties of a nurse then find out exactly what we do before entering your first semester; you could save yourself some headache and money.

MsBruiser · Oct 20, 2006

I love nursing students!

Allow me to say THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! I am just finishing up my Block I clinicals and it is the nurses like you who really make my clinicals an awesome experience...when a nurse says "I love students" I know I am usually in for a great day/days. You really make all the difference.

I fully support the idea of weighting applications based on grades in the pre-req classes.

In general, I find nursing school not to be intellectually difficult, but a MASSIVE exercise in time management. I find that if I take great notes in class, review for a few minutes each day and a few hours once a week on a day off, and basically blow off most of the reading except those sections the instructors say really matter - you can get all A(s). Frankly, my brain can't retain reading 6 chapters a night - it is a waste of time. I use the texts for the review questions and to clarify any material I might not understand (not often, though - my nursing instructors are just awesome at explaining things).

Those struggling students are the ones who usually can't balance personal and home life. Sometimes that takes some moral courage to say no - sometimes it takes money to hire that babysitter to stay with a sick child, sometimes it just takes fortitude to feign interest in a clinical situation you just hate to keep the instructor off your back. Sometimes they lack the critical thinking skills to say "I think reading every page is a waste of time - I'll anticipate what is important and be accountable for that decision". I find the students who are most bogged down in study groups and whining about readings usually don't do all that well because they can't decide what is important and what is not.

If you treat nursing school like a 45 hour a week full-time job, you will do just fine. It also helps not to work in an accelerated program, like my own.

rudopal · Oct 20, 2006

One piece of advice I can offer is, if you're involved in any toxic relationships, get out! I've had friends who dropped out after being undermined by others in their life, people you would expect to be supportive but they weren't. Maybe those others felt threatened or realized they would have to pick up some slack at home. It's sad to watch a friend who wouldv'e been a terrific nurse leave the program because a jealous family member couldn't deal with change. Nursing school is no place for people hammering out issues in their relationships.

cardiacRN2006, ADN, RN · Oct 22, 2006

Allow me to say THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! I am just finishing up my Block I clinicals and it is the nurses like you who really make my clinicals an awesome experience...when a nurse says "I love students" I know I am usually in for a great day/days. You really make all the difference.

Last two weeks were great for students! I had all kinds of IVs that I needed to have started, removal of central lines, intubations to watch (and an accidental extubation...oops). I had them doing all kinds of crazy stuff!

The best part of the ICU clinical rotation is that your clinical instuctor isn't all over you!

The nurses I had throughout my NS clinicals were very mean! I told myself that I would never be that way to a student, and I'm not, no way. It's not hard at all to be kind. Maybe God will thank me and give me a baby in my belly!

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · Oct 24, 2006

Cardiac,

You know, who am I but a lowly pre-nursing student. Oh - but I do have my opinions regarding the pre-reqs and how to better weed out the future would-be-dropouts in ns.

I see so much mass memorization in my nursing pre-req courses with few critical thinking questions. Now I know mass memorization is important - A&P comes to mind. However, why not add complexity and require more critical thinking questions on exams in addition to all of the memorization? Wouldn't this achieve the intended goals for NS pre-reqs?

I see this time and time again in my courses. The instructor asks a critical thinking question. Blank stares all around in class. A couple of students do know the answer. But you don't want to be the only student always answering, you know? The class stays quiet and the instructor backs off. Perhaps they think we are all that dumb. They need to push harder. The instructor gets that 'oh no, better back off, little darlings aren't so smart' glazed expression and then dumbs down the subject matter. It's like there's this unspoken rule that the dullest students must be carried along, even if the the curriculum is diminished. This is not going to happen in NS. So why be so gentle in the pre-reqs? They actually aren't doing students any favors by letting them go forward in pre-reqs if they can't think critically. I would think these students would hit a brick wall in NS. Why let them get as far as NS? It is actually unkind.

I can give you an example. This is jut one of probably hundreds I've noticed in my nursing pre-reqs. We had to learn the functional groups in my bio class. So the instructor told us which ones to memorize. So we did. However, we never actually talked about WHAT FUNCTIONAL GROUPS ACTUALLY ARE OR ABOUT WHAT THEY DO - THEIR SIGNIFICANCE. What good is memorizing science trivia if you don't know what it means?

The pre-reqs need to enforce more critical thinking skills even if more students are weeded out. Shouldn't that be the goal?

-end rant-

MsBruiser · Oct 24, 2006

Cardiac,
You know, who am I but a lowly pre-nursing student. Oh - but I do have my opinions regarding the pre-reqs and how to better weed out the future would-be-dropouts in ns.
I see so much mass memorization in my nursing pre-req courses with few critical thinking questions. Now I know mass memorization is important - A&P comes to mind. However, why not add complexity and require more critical thinking questions on exams in addition to all of the memorization? Wouldn't this achieve the intended goals for NS pre-reqs?
I see this time and time again in my courses. The instructor asks a critical thinking question. Blank stares all around in class. A couple of students do know the answer. But you don't want to be the only student always answering, you know? The class stays quiet and the instructor backs off. Perhaps they think we are all that dumb. They need to push harder. The instructor gets that 'oh no, better back off, little darlings aren't so smart' glazed expression and then dumbs down the subject matter. It's like there's this unspoken rule that the dullest students must be carried along, even if the the curriculum is diminished. This is not going to happen in NS. So why be so gentle in the pre-reqs? They actually aren't doing students any favors by letting them go forward in pre-reqs if they can't think critically. I would think these students would hit a brick wall in NS. Why let them get as far as NS? It is actually unkind.
I can give you an example. This is jut one of probably hundreds I've noticed in my nursing pre-reqs. We had to learn the functional groups in my bio class. So the instructor told us which ones to memorize. So we did. However, we never actually talked about WHAT FUNCTIONAL GROUPS ACTUALLY ARE OR ABOUT WHAT THEY DO - THEIR SIGNIFICANCE. What good is memorizing science trivia if you don't know what it means?
The pre-reqs need to enforce more critical thinking skills even if more students are weeded out. Shouldn't that be the goal?
-end rant-

Frankly, for all the talk of critical thinking, from my Block I perspective nursing school isn't that much different than the pre-reqs. To their credit (or detriment?), instructors do everything humanly possible to prod students along. I have never met such a wonderful and dedicated bunch of teachers in my life. So there really isn't much of a weed-out factor once you are in the program. For that reason, I do think some "weight" should be given to GPA, so as to get a better caliber of students. In my class, I'd say 20/30 are some of the brightest and most dedicated folks I have ever met. The other 10...'nuff said!

cardiacRN2006, ADN, RN · Oct 25, 2006

Cardiac,
You know, who am I but a lowly pre-nursing student.

Nonsense.

You will do just fine when you get into the program, which ever one you decide on.

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · Oct 26, 2006

Nonsense.
You will do just fine when you get into the program, which ever one you decide on.

That statement about me being just a lowly pre-nursing student was just my awkward attempt at saying "I know I'm not in the nursing program YET, but I am going to opine about why some people drop out of NS..."

I guess my lengthy post above just reveals my frustration @ SOME of my fellow pre-nursing students. They can memorize everything out the wazoo. But ask them to use critical thinking skills? Some of them just don't seem to have the ability and yet they are flying thru the pre-reqs with A's. It scares me a tad to imagine some of them taking care of vulnerable sick patients --to be honest. I guess these are the ones who will drop/fail out of NS though.

MsBruiser · Oct 26, 2006

I wouldn't assume they will drop/flunk out. There are some very scary folks indeed who do make it through...

cardiacRN2006, ADN, RN · Oct 26, 2006

I wouldn't assume they will drop/flunk out. There are some very scary folks indeed who do make it through...

Oh, God yes-some do make it through!

Seank · Jan 10, 2007

It's not just Arizona. My son graduated in May, passed the NCLEX and is now working. I believe they lost about 30% of the initial class. I was with him in spirit the entire 3.5 years of nursing school and believe me it was hard. He had little science background and no math except the basics, algebra, etc. and that a number of years ago. You have to have strong critical thinking skills, an excellent vocabulary and the ability to write well. He did a LOT of writing and critiquing. Statistics was one class I always ended up dropping myself, but he made it through with a tutor. Basically, if you have a science aptitude and an excellent background in biological sciences, math, English and are able to handle stress well, you'll have the best chance. The bottom line is that from observation I believe you need an above-average IQ, one of the basic reasons there is such a shortage. If it were not true, thousands would be flooding into the profession and succeeding. As it is, many cannot successfully complete the BSN and drop out. The days of the easier degree are passing now that some states are requiring a BSN for a license.

arizonanurse · Jan 13, 2007

We had a lot of people drop out or fail - over a third of our class in fact. Most of them were people who were just too busy. If you have four kids, work full-time, and manage a household, you cannot expect to be able to add nursing school to the mix without a problem. Some things are going to have to go. My advice: take all your corequisites before the program starts, and try to limit your working.