Why Is There A Shortage?

LydiaNN · Jan 15, 2004

Kind of as a side thread here, I have to agree with what is being said about the use of immigrant nurses. I know that many of them are fine nurses, and we definitely need them. On the other hand, they do help to keep our salaries and respect lower. It isn't right, but the hospital administration takes advantage of the abysmal working conditions in the countries many of these nurses come from and use the fact that most anything here is an improvement to treat all nurses with less respect and compensation than we deserve for the job we do. I don't know what the solution is, and I have left traditional nursing because I got tired of looking for it, but I do feel that this is the way things are.

hbscott · Jan 15, 2004

Originally posted by lizz
Which one is it? Stay and work to improve the system, or get out. We can't do both. You guys want us to take you seriously, but your collective advice is inconsistant. As students, all this does is make our heads spin, and that's not helpful.

Very good point Lizz! The toughest decision for me was to decide to stay in or leave nursing. You know what my decision entailed. But for those folks who decide to stay in nursing I think setting objectives and goals that improve working conditions, salary, benefits and autonomy is a good thing. Keeping those objectives and goals realistic can be difficult at times.

For those who elect to stay in nursing it would seem to me that moving towards an "advanced practice role" could be a significant satisfier for many reasons. For those who don't have the interest, time and/or money to pursue advance practice nursing then I would think that the goal would be to improve nursing practice through participation in an active association or union.

Nursing is what is. Nursing is a dynamic profession with a diverse culture that both satisfies and torments depending upon the individual. As I said before a good career plan takes into account a person's aptitude, ambition and opportunity. Once those three things work in harmony then everything seems to fall into place.

That has been my experience.

-HBS

webbiedebbie · Jan 16, 2004

I worked at one hospital full-time and wanted to do PRN. I was told there were no positions available for that. I left due to low pay and commuter time. I liked what I was doing there, but need to take care of my family. There is no competition between hospitals where I live.

I know there are many nurses out there who want to work. To get back on track of the real reason for this thread "Nursing Shortage" THERE IS NO NURSING SHORTAGE.

What we have are nurses who have been beaten down. I just finished hospital orientation at one hospital where the comment about Back Safety and workmen's comp determined how much money the hospital has for paying staff.

Physicians are not paid by the hospital. But they do get plenty of money spent on them from the hospital. Hospital budgets run nursing. I work in an area where the number of patients vary from shift to shift. You can start out at 1 and have 6 by the end of the shift...and only having two nurses the whole shift. This is in L&D and one day I had two patients, but no secretary or CNA. Answering telephones, taking time to input orders, running back and forth to keep the fetus on the monitor, checking in a new patient with a full history, helping your other nurse with her delivery, leaving your patients w/o care, no meal break or bathroom break...on and on. One doctor upset because I didn't have time to take care of a fetal tracing on an obese pregnant woman where the fetus was moving all around. I KNOW the reasons why the tracing is important. BUT, I am only one person!

I just got back into nursing after a 5 year hiatus due to medical and personal problems. Now, I am not sure I made the right decision. I NEED THE MONEY! I can't afford to go to a happier job for less pay!

As a_crftyldy mentioned a few threads back, doesn't it seem strange that actors, sports, and others make so much more?

We are responsible for the patients. We are there first to assess them and report to the physician any problems. WE have a lot of resonsiblity and are not being compensated for it. Hospitals don't staff adequately for the patient's needs.

As for relocating, that is not an option. My husband has his job to think about, too. Not to mention any deposits made to where you decide to move.

People, there is no nursing shortage.

LydiaNN · Jan 16, 2004

That may very well be, but the problem is that we don't all think the same way. A bulletin board is a forum for the exchange of ideas, and being open to the public the way this one is, it draws a wealth of opinions. You have to sift through them and decide which one makes the most sense to you.

chaz · Jan 16, 2004

there is never any advertising about how many nurses are needed. I think that there is a lack of support for new starters!

rstewart · Jan 16, 2004

[ posted by lizz [/i]

Which one is it? Stay and work to improve the system, or get out. We can't do both.

You guys want us to take you seriously, but your collective advice is inconsistant. As students, all this does is make our heads spin, and that's not helpful.

I don't wish to be unkind, but whether or not students choose to heed our collective voices, or to take us seriously is of little concern to me.

In my opinion there is ample evidence to determine that there is considerable dissatisfaction with the nursing profession in general, and with direct care/bedside nursing in particular. Additionally, the reasons for that dissatisfaction are in no way a secret. As one should expect, there are variations in the intensity of these dissatisfiers from unit to unit, from facility to facility, from state to state, from region to region etc. Likewise, individual nurses's responses to these dissatisfiers will vary.

As to whether or not nursing can or can not be "fixed", the same variables apply. One should not expect a consistant response. For example, a nurse who has been beating their head against the wall for twenty years trying to effect meaningful change has a different perspective than a new graduate who has yet to learn that in many cases management talk of increased autonomy, improved working conditions etc. is just that----talk. Or a nurse who is in a unionized environment may have a different perspective than one who practices in a state where the mere mention of the word "union" will result in their termination, legal or not.

Similarly, the availability of meaningful alternatives to nursing can vary widely as well when viewed on an individual basis. Barriers to retraining (family commitments, no university nearby, financial constraints etc.) can make "cutting bait" unrealistic for many despite the sincere desire to do so. On the other hand, for those just beginning their educations, it might be helpful to know that in many markets Occupational Therapy Assistants, Physical Therapy Assistants, Ultrasound Technicians, even Medical Records professionals all can earn salaries similar to RNs with a good deal less stress both physically and mentally. And those alternatives are just off the top of my head in the health care area only.

So....our views may not be uniform. But there is plenty of information out there to draw conclusions for your individual circumstances.

Sheri257 · Jan 16, 2004

I do see your point rstewart. But after seeing these same posts over and over on different threads, I'm just trying to raise the discussion to a level that also talks about solutions.

If people need to vent, I understand that. But a lot of people are constantly telling students to get out and, there have been posts where people have scared students into thinking they should abandon the profession all together.

The problem is these statements don't take into account different situations and circumstances. If a nurse is miserable in Texas, that doesn't mean she (or he) is going to be miserable in California where there are unionized hospitals with better working conditions. The same principle applies to nurses who are working in rural areas with limited options versus a nurse who works in a major metropolitan area with lots of options and, hopefully, a better chance.

This is why statements like "Get Out" and "Run for the Hills" deserve scrutiny. Not to mention the fact that some of the people who say these things haven't "gotten out" themselves and remain in nursing which, quite frankly, is a bit hypocritical.

And, since some of these people haven't been out in the job market, I don't think they know how tough other non-nursing jobs can be. Yet they're more than happy to send students out in to a lousy job market where the prospects are not promising.

Students do need to know about these problems. But, at the same time, it can be quite misleading since the bad working conditions may not apply to everyone. And, with the recession and jobless "recovery," the alternatives may, in fact, be worse.

rstewart · Jan 16, 2004

Originally posted by lizz
I do see your point rstewart.

That is why statements like "Get Out" and "Run for the Hills" deserve scrutiny. Not to mention the fact that some of the people who say these things haven't "gotten out" themselves and remain in nursing which, quite frankly, is a bit hypocritical.

I had hopes that you had seen my point, however, after reading the above quote, I fear that is not the case.

Those nurses who you refer to as "hypocritical" are sharing their experiences from their perspectives; true, there may be an element of venting, but they have nothing to gain otherwise. Rather, they are offering additional information for those outside of the field to scrutinize. Keep in mind there are many stakeholders who have a vested interest in making the nursing profession appear as attractive as possible; Further, those same stakeholders also have the resources to get their story out.

Life circumstances may limit the realistic alternatives for those nurses who direct others away from the profession. When teen moms advise peers to use contraception, or prisoners tell youthful offenders to stop screwing up, or lung cancer survivors give testimony to others during anti-smoking campaigns they are not being hypocrites. Rather, they are saying ____ has made my life more difficult. Learn from my experience so that it doesn't happen to you.

Although I am still in nursing, I would not encourage most people to go to nursing school. In my view, more attractive alternatives are available to students who are intelligent enough to make good nurses. And unfortunately, it is also my opinion that despite all the rhetoric, there will be few significant positive changes in the foreseeable future due to financial constraints.

athomas91 · Jan 16, 2004

lizz,

as a student nurse - you should not be asking seasoned nurses "what to do" whether it be get out or make it better - that is dependent on what you think of the profession - and you cannot have an opinion on that until you have had experience in the arena....that is kinda like a 13 y/o asking if they should lobby to change vehicle law?!?!?

nursing is a GREAT field w/ an enormous amount of opportunity...some love being a nurse - working on the floor everyday....some (like myself) needed more didactic and clinical stimulation....

if you don't like where/how you work - then be proactive...there are organizations....ENA, ANA, AANA, ETC...... that are huge in the legalities and rights departments....there are unions which some say are a godsend and others abhor.... you will have to decide that when you jump in the water....

but if anyone is basing their decision whether to enter nursing or not based on this forum along - they might as well find something else to do - because for positions that afford wonderful rewards (such as in the medical field) - there is also a great cost....

stressednurse · Jan 16, 2004

The shortage of nurses willing to work as nurses is mostly due to the work environment. Management of nursing facilities needs to accept this and make some appropriate changes.

I just accepted a job in a hospital that has made some nice changes for nurses. Nurses are considered the center of the hospital, docs are not allowed to treat nurses with disrespect.

There are retention incentives and ongoing monthly incentives for nurses. We do the bedside care, we talk to the patients and families. If we are contented with our jobs and treated with respect we will present ourselves in a more positive way.

Due to these changes made over the last 2 years some nurses with a lot of experience are applying here and the small group of orients I was with this week have a lot of experience to offer. Adding up the years of experience between 7 of us it totals 150 years. 2 have come out of retirement to work at this facility.

There are a few consultants out there that are recommending facilities drop the agency nurses, pay their nurses a fair wage and place the "saved" monies they were paying to agencies in programs for retention incentives. Also recommended is that management stop spending all their time on the complainers. The staff that comes to work regularly, has no complaints to offer, their patients like them and they usually get along with their co-workers; these good workers have been ignored except at evaluation time yearly. There has been no reason for management to chat with them or get their input as there are too many complaints and tattling to deal with. The tattlers and complainers are saying in their own way that things need to change. Everyone handles stress in a different way, complainers complain, tattlers tattle, whiners whine, the silent ones just shut up and work and stew until they quit, some are hired into this environment with no cooperation between staff members...look around for a few days of orientation and quit.

Sheri257 · Jan 17, 2004

Originally posted by rstewart

In my view, more attractive alternatives are available to students who are intelligent enough to make good nurses.

Well, I've asked this before. So I guess it won't hurt to ask again.

What would those altnernatives be?

piper_for_hire · Jan 17, 2004

Yes - I would like to hear what the alternatives are too.

-S