What's Happening at the VA Hospitals?

A VA hospital in West Virginia is investigating some suspicious deaths. Nurses Headlines News

There is a recent article from the Washington Post about several suspicious deaths at a Veterans Administration (VA) Hospital in West Virginia:

"An investigation into the suspicious deaths of 11 veterans, who may have been given deadly insulin injections at a West Virginia VA Medical Center, is reportedly focusing on a nursing assistant who worked the overnight shift and had “improper access” to a supply room. The woman, whose name was withheld by the Washington Post, was fired from the facility last year and has not been charged. Seven veterans’ bodies have been exhumed as part of the homicide probe, which has raised troubling questions about the Department of Veterans Affairs’ health-care system. “You mean to tell me that for nine months you didn’t know what was going on in your hospital?” Sen. Joe Manchin told the Post. “Either you didn’t care, or there was a lack of competency.”

In one instance, a non-diabetic man had a progressively decreasing blood glucose, without known cause, and died shortly thereafter.

This is just the latest in a string of issues at various VA Hospitals:

  • August, 2019 a former VA pathologist in Fayetteville, Ark., was indicted on three charges of manslaughter after officials say he misdiagnosed thousands of patients while using drugs or alcohol.
  • In Beckley, W.Va., a former VA doctor is under investigation for sexually assaulting as many as 20 of his male patients, according to two people familiar with the case.

Should the VA Hospitals be overhauled? There are many other issues at VA hospitals all over the US. From USA Today:

  • At the Loma Linda VA Hospital the average wait time in the ED is >7 hours
  • Almost all VA Hospital fare worse than their civilian counterparts in patient satisfaction surveys
  • In 2014, the Phoenix VA came under scrutiny when it was reported that vets were dying while waiting for appointments.
  • Equipment sterilization issues in a Washington VA Hospital

How should this be addressed? The VA says they care for elderly, very ill, sometimes immunocompromised patients. In June 2019 the VA published information about the new Veterans Community Care Program and here are some of the details:

  • Veterans can work with their VA health care provider or other VA staff to see if they are eligible to receive community care based on new criteria. Veterans may elect to receive care in the community if they meet any of the following six eligibility criteria:
    • A Veteran needs a service not available at any VA medical facility.
    • A Veteran lives in a U.S. state or territory without a full-service VA medical facility. Specifically, this would apply to Veterans living in Alaska, Hawaii, New Hampshire and the U.S. territories of Guam, American Samoa, the Northern Mariana Islands and the U.S. Virgin Islands.
    • A Veteran qualifies under the “grandfather” provision related to distance eligibility under the Veterans Choice Program.

Is this enough? It's a start for sure. It is yet to be seen if this initiative will improve care to our vets.

As a veteran do you trust the care at the VA? Do you use the VA?

Specializes in Cardiology.
6 hours ago, DaveMHA-RN said:

Don't make this personal. I am not bitter or miserable. I am satisfied the salary and benefits that I earn.

Salaries and benefits should be based on performance and not longevity with automatic step increases as it is with the VHA.

13 sick days annually with no limit on accumulation, 26 days of annual leave, and 10 paid federal holidays-49 days of paid time off a year and salaries that exceed the private sector paid for by the taxpayer.

The VHA's performance does not merit those salaries or benefits.

Organizations that pay good salaries and benefits are the ones that compete and generate revenue. That is the problem with the VHA -no competition and the mentality of many VHA employees that if they do the minimum they will still get their next grade/step and all the benefits.

Bottom line: the VHA is ripping-off the taxpayer and is killing Veterans.

Veterans earned the right to choose where they get healthcare and should not have to depend on a system that fails them on a daily basis.

I cant help but not make it personal because you are saying I am getting benefits I dont earn. I am happy with my salary and benefits too, so why take them away from me? I have done nothing wrong since becoming a RN. I am on time, dont abuse the call off system, never been written up. Im sorry that my salary is better than private sector. Perhaps private sector hospitals should offer better benefits and higher pay to keep their RNs at the bedside. I worked at a hospital that is known throughout the world. They have high turnover because guess what: they treat their employees as numbers and lowball their RNs.

The VA does have a performance system. Yes the steps are automatic every 2 years but going from nurse 1 to nurse 2 to nurse 3 is not automatic and requires performance reviews.

Again, I have come across vets day in and day out here at my medical facility that are happy with their care. Dont let other medical centers decide for everyone. The VA needs an overhaul but it doesnt need to be eliminated. PTSD and TBI from combat are not the same as a car crash victim.

I see in another post that your wife is a teacher. Id be willing to bet you and your wife would be in an uproar if they tried taking away her cake benefits and retirement and then made the schools privatized.

1 Votes
16 minutes ago, OUxPhys said:

The VA needs an overhaul but it doesnt need to be eliminated. PTSD and TBI from combat are not the same as a car crash victim.

I see in another post that your wife is a teacher. Id be willing to bet you and your wife would be in an uproar if they tried taking away her cake benefits

The VHA has been trying to reform itself for decades. Each new quality improvement program and new slogan has had little impact on reforming the VHA which indicates the VHA incapable of fixing its own problems.

I know how the VHA works -they shuffle directors around who get in trouble rather than fire them. The Unions cover for subpar employees and usually win because middle management is inept at doing its job. And the VHA plays fast and lose with numbers from everything from wait lists to the annual SAIL report.

PTSD and TBI has the same pathology for the victim of an automobile accident, industrial accident or a combat Vet or the victim of a violent assault or rape. And yes these people get treated in the private sector every day, as well as some Veterans who have given up on the VHA.

If the VHA was effective at treating PTSD we would not have 22 Veterans taking their own lives every day, including Veterans blowing their brains out in VHA parking lots to make their point.

I am a SC Veteran and I go to the VA once a year for a physical. Thank God I have insurance and do not have to depend on the VHA for healthcare. It is truly appalling what goes on within the VHA and I am not saying that all VHA employees are bad, I know some great people who have worked for the VHA -what I am saying the VA has existed in one form or another since 1865 and they still haven't gotten right -it can't be fixed or it would have been done already.

So you saw my wife is a teacher on another thread; quit stalking me and have a nice day. lol ?

1 Votes
Specializes in Cardiology.
1 hour ago, DaveMHA-RN said:

The VHA has been trying to reform itself for decades. Each new quality improvement program and new slogan has had little impact on reforming the VHA which indicates the VHA incapable of fixing its own problems.

I know how the VHA works -they shuffle directors around who get in trouble rather than fire them. The Unions cover for subpar employees and usually win because middle management is inept at doing its job. And the VHA plays fast and lose with numbers from everything from wait lists to the annual SAIL report.

PTSD and TBI has the same pathology for the victim of an automobile accident, industrial accident or a combat Vet or the victim of a violent assault or rape. And yes these people get treated in the private sector every day, as well as some Veterans who have given up on the VHA.

If the VHA was effective at treating PTSD we would not have 22 Veterans taking their own lives every day, including Veterans blowing their brains out in VHA parking lots to make their point.

I am a SC Veteran and I go to the VA once a year for a physical. Thank God I have insurance and do not have to depend on the VHA for healthcare. It is truly appalling what goes on within the VHA and I am not saying that all VHA employees are bad, I know some great people who have worked for the VHA -what I am saying the VA has existed in one form or another since 1865 and they still haven't gotten right -it can't be fixed or it would have been done already.

So you saw my wife is a teacher on another thread; quit stalking me and have a nice day. lol ?

I do agree that the union is probably the biggest issue in getting rid of bad and subpar employees. I see my manager having to deal with it on a daily basis. And you are right, the VA does shuffle around people instead of getting rid of them but honestly what government agency doesn't do that? How many times have we seen a person get re-assigned instead of fired? Or when there is a major scandal at a private hospital? Notice how the upper administrators can "resign" or "retire" and still claim their retirement/benefits package?

Im glad you have insurance so you dont have to use the VA but there are a lot who do not and its all they have. It's better than nothing. Just saying "Oh, the private sector will do better" is just silly and ignorant. As Ive said, no place is perfect.

BTW, it isn't stalking if you put it out in the open ?.

Specializes in ICU/ER mostley ER 25 years.

The same pathology? Yeah, right. My DW had the unfortunate experience of being raped at knife point. She has gotten over it.

My neighbors from the next town over dropped by one night and blew up every house in my neighborhood then machine gunned to death 17 of my friends. They wounded another 35 or so including me. Fortunately we had guns and were able to fight back so they didn't kill every single one of us. It lasted 2 hours and seemed like an eternity. I have not gotten over it. My personal nightmare is there is an afterlife and I carry the memories forever.

Many military acquired TBIs have a comorbidity of PTSD. I would venture that it is not as prevalent in civilian life.

15 hours ago, OUxPhys said:

1. the VA does shuffle around people instead of getting rid of them but honestly what government agency doesn't do that? Or when there is a major scandal at a private hospital? Notice how the upper administrators can "resign" or "retire" and still claim their retirement/benefits package?

2. Im glad you have insurance so you dont have to use the VA but there are a lot who do not and its all they have. It's better than nothing.

3. Just saying "Oh, the private sector will do better" is just silly and ignorant. As Ive said, no place is perfect.

BTW, it isn't stalking if you put it out in the open ?.

1. Why is corruption in the Senior Executive Service (SES) and the Civil Service (GS) within the VHA acceptable? Just because that is how the government works? Many of these people in the SES would be in prison if they pulled their shenanigans in the private sector but they are untouchable in government. The SES is a big problem in this country -we have a shadow government of unelected bureaucrats dictating public policy and regulation.

2. "It's all they have, it's better than nothing?" These are people we have sent to war to defend our country -so substandard care is "better than nothing"?

3. Sure it's "silly or ignorant" to believe the evidence which shows competition drives innovation, quality, timeliness, value, and safety in healthcare. And it is "silly or ignorant" to doubt a government run, bloated, corrupt, proven failure of a healthcare system that has no competition is somehow better. Sorry for my silly ignorance. I have a Masters Degree in Healthcare Administration & a BSN. I should have encountered you sooner; I could just have taken your word for it and skipped graduate school and saved a bunch of money.

Jasper Craven wrote a piece for the Nation back in March entitled "The VA Is Socialism in Action. We Must Defend It From Privatization". He does not defend the VA because it provides safe, appropriate, quality healthcare; on the contrary, he concedes it lacking. Craven makes the case for the VA merely because it is socialized medicine and government controlled healthcare. He praised it not because of quality but because of government control. But don't worry as Jasper Craven points out if die hard socialists ever take power, you and your family will be forced to get your care from a healthcare system like the VHA. After all "it's better than nothing" and it will erase disparities in healthcare because we will all have crappy healthcare.

Have a nice day..... ?

Specializes in Cardiology.
1 hour ago, DaveMHA-RN said:

1. Why is corruption in the Senior Executive Service (SES) and the Civil Service (GS) within the VHA acceptable? Just because that is how the government works? Many of these people in the SES would be in prison if they pulled their shenanigans in the private sector but they are untouchable in government. The SES is a big problem in this country -we have a shadow government of unelected bureaucrats dictating public policy and regulation.

2. "It's all they have, it's better than nothing?" These are people we have sent to war to defend our country -so substandard care is "better than nothing"?

3. Sure it's "silly or ignorant" to believe the evidence which shows competition drives innovation, quality, timeliness, value, and safety in healthcare. And it is "silly or ignorant" to doubt a government run, bloated, corrupt, proven failure of a healthcare system that has no competition is somehow better. Sorry for my silly ignorance. I have a Masters Degree in Healthcare Administration & a BSN. I should have encountered you sooner; I could just have taken your word for it and skipped graduate school and saved a bunch of money.

Jasper Craven wrote a piece for the Nation back in March entitled "The VA Is Socialism in Action. We Must Defend It From Privatization". He does not defend the VA because it provides safe, appropriate, quality healthcare; on the contrary, he concedes it lacking. Craven makes the case for the VA merely because it is socialized medicine and government controlled healthcare. He praised it not because of quality but because of government control. But don't worry as Jasper Craven points out if die hard socialists ever take power, you and your family will be forced to get your care from a healthcare system like the VHA. After all "it's better than nothing" and it will erase disparities in healthcare because we will all have crappy healthcare.

Have a nice day..... ?

Cool. I have a BSN too ? Im not trying to have a measuring contest with you. Seeing how you have a master’s in health administration it makes sense the positions you are taking. You’re cool with having a bloated salary but you are against floor nurses making a decent wage (like the VA provides me).

I have said multiple times that its not acceptable yet I dont see you calling for the abolishment of those government agencies. And again it happens in your world on your level too.

Seeing how medical bills are one of the main reasons why people go into bankruptcy yeah, the VA is still better than having nothing at all. You seem to ignore the fact that not all VA medical centers are cesspools and provide great care (I know because I work at one). I do not whatsoever condone substandard care to any of our vets.

Its been a pleasure debating with you. Im just going to say we agree to disagree.

Enjoy those executive benefits ?

1 Votes
1 hour ago, OUxPhys said:

1. You’re cool with having a bloated salary but you are against floor nurses making a decent wage (like the VA provides me).

2. I have said multiple times that its not acceptable yet I dont see you calling for the abolishment of those government agencies.

3. Seeing how medical bills are one of the main reasons why people go into bankruptcy yeah, the VA is still better than having nothing at all. You seem to ignore the fact that not all VA medical centers are cesspools and provide great care (I know because I work at one). I do not whatsoever condone substandard care to any of our vets.

4. Its been a pleasure debating with you. Im just going to say we agree to disagree.

1. In NO way did I imply or endorse such a thing. VN pay is based on the local market. Your VN salary is consument with what a RN with the same education and experience in the local market area makes. And is decided by the VA's local Nurse Professional Standards Board rather than by Human Resources as it is in the private sector.

2. There are a number of federal agencies that we could live without and I full on would like to see them abolished -but that is a whole other discussion. Anything the government grows is hard to get rid of even when it has outlived its usefulness.

3. Because there a a few good facilities does not make the case for continuing to pump money into an organization that as a whole that has failed. Every week the VHA is in the news with one new scandal after another. Organizationally, if the VHA was subject to the same forces as the private sector it would have been scuttled a long time ago.

4. Agreed! ?

On 10/21/2019 at 10:08 PM, Walti said:

Many military acquired TBIs have a comorbidity of PTSD. I would venture that it is not as prevalent in civilian life.

But that does not mean that the private sector cannot treat it. The VHA is not endowed with mythical magical powers that they alone possess to solely treat combat Vets. And they are not doing a very good job at it with 22 Veterans committing suicide everyday.

Specializes in ICU/Ortho/Med surg.

I work at a large VA outpatient Health care center in the South East. I see excellent care being delivered all day, everywhere here. I vehemently disagree however, with those that say there are far too few Veteran's employed in leadership positions within the VA. While this may be true other places, at my facility, we have a strong senior management Veteran leadership panel. Our goals are clear and communication is strong.

Some at my facility credit all the "New Blood" coming in to the VA due to the MERIT ACT and several provisions of that act as well as POTUS' executive orders from last June. Our VA is hiring talented people and the Nurses get to be part of the team that interviews prospective applicants. Now, if HR can only get to the business of getting rid of "dead weight" do nothings (yes, we still have a "few" of those) But for the most part, I love my job and I am proud of the services we offer our veterans.

2 Votes
Specializes in Cardiology.
44 minutes ago, pinfinity said:

I work at a large VA outpatient Health care center in the South East. I see excellent care being delivered all day, everywhere here. I vehemently disagree however, with those that say there are far too few Veteran's employed in leadership positions within the VA. While this may be true other places, at my facility, we have a strong senior management Veteran leadership panel. Our goals are clear and communication is strong.

Some at my facility credit all the "New Blood" coming in to the VA due to the MERIT ACT and several provisions of that act as well as POTUS' executive orders from last June. Our VA is hiring talented people and the Nurses get to be part of the team that interviews prospective applicants. Now, if HR can only get to the business of getting rid of "dead weight" do nothings (yes, we still have a "few" of those) But for the most part, I love my job and I am proud of the services we offer our veterans.

I meant my facility. At my VA facility there doesn't seem to be a lot or enough veterans in senior level positions.

1 Votes

The VA is the single worst place I’ve ever been. Not only the VA, which seems to be all that’s ever discussed when we talk about military and their health care, but the doctors and nurses who treat active duty military are also inept.

I have a LONG list of service connected disabilities. So much so, that I’m rated a combined 80% by the VA. If you have any idea about how those rating work, you understand exactly how severe my case. EVERY SINGLE ISSUE STEMS FROM POOR CARE. Every single one. In fact, had the errors made by those doctors and nurses been made by civilian doctors and nurses? I’ve been told by more than one lawyer that I’d be a millionaire.

Many of those doctors and nurses don’t care because they operate with no real worries about malpractice. None. There is something called the Feres Doctrine that prevents the military from suing. The VA also has a free pass until they kill someone and a family tries to sue for wrongful death.

The VA shouldn’t be in the business of acute care whatsoever. All VA hospitals should be closed immediately. They’re not worth nearly what they cost. And the staff is paid entirely too much. We need to close those facilities and give veterans health insurance to see who they want to see. Truly we should get rid of all VA healthcare, but our current healthcare system doesn’t have the number of PCPs we need as it is, so i only day to keep the outpatient stuff open so vets can keep up with their primary care

Honestly, and i know I’m going to have people here complain about this, but the VA should be run and staffed by veterans only. Civilians don’t understand how to treat us. They also don’t care about us nearly as much as we care about each other. Before someone tries to cry and say they care, I’m not saying you don’t. I’m sure you care. You just don’t care about us nearly as much as we care about each other.

Professionally, I’ve worked near many VA hospitals as a traveler. I’ve taken entirely too many VA surgical patients in those hospitals due to the VA making mistakes and wrecking those patients. Those vets would spend weeks on my units because the simple surgeries the VA performed were done so poorly. Complications so easily avoidable you’d cry for the patients enduring those problems.

I wouldn’t even send violent inmates to the VA, because even murderers don’t deserve the poor care they give.

The worst part, for me, is they knew that the military docs’ negligence caused some severe problems with me. So what did they do? Continue the negligence until i ended up with a hysterectomy at 32 years old. What else did they do? Ignore me more until i had to have a major back surgery at 36. I’m only 37 and i have surgeries most people have in their 40s and 50s. While my friends are still having kids, i was told to be happy with the fact I was able to have my 2 sons. “At least you were lucky enough for that.” Never mind how many kids I wanted. Or the the fact that I never got to try for the daughter I as desperate to have. And wanted to try at least 2 more times to have. No, i should be happy with the fact they stole my fertility from me because I already had kids. They shouldn’t be held responsible for ignoring every single symptom I had, or for the numerous doctors and nurses who looked me dead in my face and called me a liar. Civilian VA doctors and nurses looked me in my eyes and called me a drug seeker. Only ONE VA doctor ever believed me; ever helped me. Surprise, surprise, it was the veteran who helped me. He was the only one who ever tried to do anything for my problems. He was the one with tears in his eyes when he told me that I’d lose my reproductive system. He was the one who said “please, please tell me you didn’t want any more kids. If you even want one more child I’m not going to sleep tonight.” That Doctor then advised me, no, BEGGED me to use a civilian doctor for the surgery. He wasn’t a surgeon and told me he wouldn’t want me in their OR. I told him to trust that I’d never let one of those “doctors” to ever take a scalpel to my body. Let alone to operate on the problem they created.

I remember when i was a LCpl my tailbone hurt beyond belief. The first time i went to sick call they told me i was just trying to get out of PT and to get out. The second time i went the doc said i had a broken tailbone and he couldn’t do anything about it and to think again if i wanted pain pills. Mind you, i never asked for pain meds. 3 weeks later i was on my couch, sick. To this day i don’t remember my husband calling the ambulance, but evidently I was delirious and confused, and my temperature spiked to 104. The only thing I remember is the pain from the scalpel as the cyst was lanced in the Camp Lejuene ED because i wasn’t given any pain medication prior. No lidocaine, nothing. Turns out that “broken tailbone” was a cyst that ended up being a major infection because it was ignored for so long. They packed the wound, and told me not to touch it until my follow up. Well, i didn’t get a follow up for 5 days. So, i followed orders and didn’t touch it. At 19, with no medical knowledge (i was an avionics technician) i didn’t know you weren't supposed to leave that packing in for so long. So when i went to my follow up they couldn’t even take the packing out without my screaming, and i ended up going to the OR for an I&D the next day. It had to be left open for 2 months. I ended up on convalescent leave the entire time. I’m sure that sounds great to you, but it was hell for me. It made me look so bad, and it gave me a really crappy reputation. I was looked at like a malingerer because of that incident. People called me “broke d*ck” and lost respect for me. I couldn’t miss a single day of work for over a year to get rid of that stigma. I went to work with stomach bugs, the flu, and food poisoning once. If i was sick I’d just wear a mask and go in. After a year they finally stopped calling me that (it took the food poisoning), and my Gunny came to me and said “OK! We get it, you're not a broke d*ck! GO HOME THIS IS GROSS!!”

Those are just 2 instances of their inability to treat us. I spent 4 years in, and have been out for 15 years. I haven’t set foot in a VA hospital for a few years now, and I’m better for it. Much better. My PCP takes care of all my service connected problems, i see him once a month, and I’ve gotten off of so many medications because of him. The only pain med I take anymore is the gabapentin, and that’s only because they (the VA) ignored my back complaints for so long the disc compressed my nerves and made my right foot, the right side of my right lower leg, and the back of my right thigh are permanently numb. The surgery, although it cured my foot drop and severe weakness, did NOT cure my numbness. So I’ll never feel them again, or be able to wiggle my toes.

Someone here commented “if this is true...”

Yes. It’s true. Every single complaint about that place is true; and more. I could tell stories for days, of my own horrors and the horrors of my friends and their family members. The sad part is, we rarely hear of the worst cases. And we only ever hear about the few people who managed to scream loud enough to get attention. As much as people “support our troops/vets!” they never seem to care about this stuff until it’s shoved down their throats. If enough civilians actually cared, this wouldn’t occur.

And I’m sure that comment will cue the anecdotes about how great of care their VA gives, but honestly? Just because your single department is doing well (and until i heard from your patients i wouldn’t believe you), doesn’t mean that most of us veterans have horror stories to go along with our many health problems.

Just because your VA threw a few vets into your staff, doesn’t change the fact that the ONLY career in the VA thats comprised of mostly veterans is JANITOR. It also doesn’t change the fact that MANY VA hospitals are harder to get into than the mafia, with many only hiring friends of the staff. It also doesn’t change the fact that most of the biggest paying jobs within VA healthcare and the VA as a whole are mostly civilian held positions.

I tried to get a VA hospital job to help my brothers and sisters. That position was filled by a RN with years less experience and no military background. No 10 point preference to speak of. You know what she did have? A babysitter who happened to be the manager’s daughter.