Whatever happened to going to school to be a nurse?

Spiker, ASN, RN, EMT-P · Dec 4, 2016

I hear ya!! I'm an old RN, too; finished college when my kids went to school, in the 70's. I started on my BSN, but got divorced, & started working 2 full-time jobs (hence, the Medic career), so little finances or time to complete it. Medical centers I worked in (as an OR nurse) paid no differential for degree, so I was happy with my ADN. I did complete my CNOR certification, remaining as such for many years. We actually got 50 cents/hour extra for it! Wow! I took extra call hours to make the big money. I've been very happy where I am; OR Nursing is high stress/high tech; I can't imagine moving elsewhere for "upward mobility" in Nursing. For all of you who do want to continue your education & career moves, I wish you the best of luck. For the rest of us happy to be caring for our patients in the trenches, it's been an honor standing shoulder to shoulder with you!

katier1212 · Dec 4, 2016

I'm going to school for nursing right now and I'm excited to help and take care of people. I don't feel like I'm very likeable because I'm not very outgoing or talkative, but I care for people a lot without them knowing. I always say a small prayer when I see an ambulance. Money and job stability was definitely a plus for me; considering I come from a poor, unstable family and all I want to do is be stable. I see a lot of nursing students and I'm worried it's going to be hard to find a job in a few years.. Everyone use to always say how hospitals are always needing nurses but lately I've been hearing how the hospitals around me can't afford to hire anymore.

Allgood2016, LPN, LVN · Dec 5, 2016

I have been a nurse (LPN/LVN), for for a little 40 + years. I took 1 year "off" for each of my 2 children. I had always wated to be a nurse; from a very young age.

I am proud to be an LPN/LVN. I love hands on work.

I've seen many changes in my career. But, to me, hands on is still the basic necessity. It's been proven that touch can help and calm patients. Holding a hand at the end of life says more than words. Skin to skin contact helps premature babies. I've seen a soft touch on the forehead or arm do wonders. Way back when I was in nursing school one of the first things we were taught was simple relaxation massage; this is no longer taught.

I've only been hospitalized a few times in my adult life. It's the "old school" hands on nurses I remember the most.

Kate_Peds · Dec 5, 2016

Sorry Jules, meant to quote you. I must've done it incorrectly.

"It is unfortunate and I'm sure your experience is rather common. Perhaps the schools have some altruistic motive that doesn't involve separating you from your hard earned dollars as they regal you with tales of bigger and better things if only you keep the tuition checks flowing? After all this you too can be called "doctor" but not in most hospitals where Dr. means MD."

You won't find many who disagree with you on your first point. I do not think that anyone here is foolish enough to believe that universities want any more than your money. Remember, we are newer nurses with degrees, we have already been through this process once before.

As far as the "doctor" complaint, I'd have to respectfully disagree. This is the same parroted argument found in every dark corner of SDN. It's a tired trend that I've noticed--an illogical and overly exaggerated criticism of the NP degree, mostly by forever bedside nurses or older NPs who are upset that newer nurses are not "paying their dues."

The BSN was always meant to be the "launch pad" for something else. That is the very nature of the degree. BSN and ADN receive the same pay. They take the same licensing exam. They work in the same areas. The only difference between the two is that a BSN is needed for management and graduate advancement. That's the reason it exists.

I am happy that I am working on my MSN rather than the DNP. That way I can effectively excuse myself from the NP bashing pow-wow about how nurses are just desperate to be mistaken for the MD. If that's the only thing they have to complain about, I think those of us in the newer generation of nurses will be just fine.

Kate_Peds · Dec 5, 2016

I know--what's up with the millennial bashing? It gets old, fast. I can think of some lazy nurses on my unit who are Gen Xers. I def can think of Baby Boomers who are lazy too.
I think every generation is going to bash younger generations for being such-and-such, ad nauseum.

Every generation believes they are the "better" group and they were all criticized when they were the youngest generation, too. We will survive all of the complaining, I promise.

A desire for higher education and career mindfulness is never something to apologize for. There will be objections no matter what you do, so you might as well do what is best for you. :up:

RNperdiem, RN · Dec 5, 2016

The risk with advanced degrees is if there is a job market for all the people moving on to "something else".

A person can end up overqualified, underskilled and in debt without a real plan.

Jules A, MSN · Dec 5, 2016

The risk with advanced degrees is if there is a job market for all the people moving on to "something else".
A person can end up overqualified, underskilled and in debt without a real plan.

Excellent point and it never ceases to amaze me the number of posts I see here of enrolled NP students actually laying out their money with absolutely zero knowledge of the employment market in their area, the average pay rate, not even a lame google search which in my experience is not accurate, or having networked with local NPs. I spend more time examining and choosing apples at Whole Foods then it sounds like many do before coughing up $50,000 for a degree. :wideyed:

Jules A, MSN · Dec 5, 2016

Sorry Jules, meant to quote you. I must've done it incorrectly.
"It is unfortunate and I'm sure your experience is rather common. Perhaps the schools have some altruistic motive that doesn't involve separating you from your hard earned dollars as they regal you with tales of bigger and better things if only you keep the tuition checks flowing? After all this you too can be called "doctor" but not in most hospitals where Dr. means MD."
You won't find many who disagree with you on your first point. I do not think that anyone here is foolish enough to believe that universities want any more than your money. Remember, we are newer nurses with degrees, we have already been through this process once before.
As far as the "doctor" complaint, I'd have to respectfully disagree. This is the same parroted argument found in every dark corner of SDN. It's a tired trend that I've noticed--an illogical and overly exaggerated criticism of the NP degree, mostly by forever bedside nurses or older NPs who are upset that newer nurses are not "paying their dues."
The BSN was always meant to be the "launch pad" for something else. That is the very nature of the degree. BSN and ADN receive the same pay. They take the same licensing exam. They work in the same areas. The only difference between the two is that a BSN is needed for management and graduate advancement. That's the reason it exists.
I am happy that I am working on my MSN rather than the DNP. That way I can effectively excuse myself from the NP bashing pow-wow about how nurses are just desperate to be mistaken for the MD. If that's the only thing they have to complain about, I think those of us in the newer generation of nurses will be just fine.

I'm not sure what you meant about disagreeing with my doctor complaint. Are hospitals in your area allowing DNPs to introduce themselves as "Dr"? Or was it just my skepticism that the DNP as it stands for NPs is not worthwhile because it does nothing extra to boost clinical acumen.

You are right on that I am an older NP who is not happy with the new trend to never have worked as a RN prior to becoming a NP and start prescribing Lithium for a child you've just diagnosed with Bipolar or an antipsychotic for a young child who said they hear voices when in fact they have trauma history, terrible parents and absolutely no axis 1 diagnosis. This has nothing to do with me being bitter and wanting to make you "pay their dues". My concerns are patient care and outcomes and maintaining my excellent salary because so many have not done their homework with regard to wages and end up working for peanuts which drives all of our wages down.

Kate_Peds · Dec 5, 2016

The risk with advanced degrees is if there is a job market for all the people moving on to "something else".
A person can end up overqualified, underskilled and in debt without a real plan.

This is a very real issue.

I doubt that there will ever be as many open NP positions as there are RN positions. That's something that I don't believe people consider.

Registered nurses will always have greater geographical mobility. Likewise, they have the advantage of being able to specialize in any area. You can't be a PMHNP and then expect to deliver babies in the hospital if you end up changing your mind. That's an additional degree/certification! But you can be a psych nurse that then moves into L&D.

Mindfulness is important. You bring up a great point about being aware of the job market.

Kate_Peds · Dec 5, 2016

I'm not sure what you meant about disagreeing with my doctor complaint. Are hospitals in your area allowing DNPs to introduce themselves as "Dr"? Or was it just my skepticism that the DNP as it stands for NPs is not worthwhile because it does nothing extra to boost clinical acumen.
You are right on that I am an older NP who is not happy with the new trend to never have worked as a RN prior to becoming a NP and start prescribing Lithium for a child you've just diagnosed with Bipolar or an antipsychotic for a young child who said they hear voices when in fact they have trauma history, terrible parents and absolutely no axis 1 diagnosis. This has nothing to do with me being bitter and wanting to make you "pay their dues". My concerns are patient care and outcomes and maintaining my excellent salary because so many have not done their homework with regard to wages and end up working for peanuts which drives all of our wages down.

Jules, to be clear, I did not know that you were an NP. My comment about "older NPs" was not meant to be a slight against you. I am sorry if it came off that way.

I do not work with any DNPs. I work exclusively with MSN NPs. I also work at an academic hospital, so NPs are quite common here. I have yet to see any nurse practitioner introduce themselves as "doctor." Nor am I likely to, as I don't work with any DNPs. Do I doubt that some NPs fail to correct this mistaken identity? Of course not. However, I believe this is more of a recycled argument than a valid reason as to why nurses are pursuing advanced degrees (perhaps money might be one reason).

I never claimed that you were "bitter" and, like you, I do not believe that you should be able to advance without any bedside experience. I am not sure why you assume that I believe otherwise. This thread is about those that go to nursing school with the intention of becoming an APRN, CNS, management, etc., as opposed strictly working bedside for the duration of their career.

I am very happy for you that you have plenty of experience and an excellent salary. However, I care more about my own career than ensuring you live comfortably by limiting myself. Your personal career is a non-issue to me, and I am sure that mine is of no concern to you, as well. I know that you understand salary is region dependent. The job market is fluid and changes often. I am sure there are NPs that accept poor salaries, however, recent research shows that salaries for NPs have steadily increased over recent years.

Here is an article from AANP as a reference: AANP - Annual Income For Full-time Nurse Practitioners Up 1

Bxc9999 · Dec 5, 2016

1. Bedside nurses are the salt of the earth. The good ones (i.e. the ones who care, think, improve, help, love/hate the grit of it all) are among some of the truest warrior angels of this world. That being said -

2. NO ONE IN THIS WORLD CAN SURVIVE WITHOUT MAKING A LIVING. Please underline that statement in your mind. I do not like when I hear/see "oh, he or she is just in it for the money." For real????!!!! Like nurses are some highly paid profession??? What?! That nurse you just talked down on has kids to feed and/or bills to pay (on top of whatever other everyday stressors are involved in this thing called LIFE). EVERYONE IS IN THEIR JOB FOR THE MONEY (all the extra feel-good moments and butterfly effects are added goodness - I know). Otherwise, wouldn't we all be vacationing around the world's most exotic places with our families and doing volunteer missions to help people in need? I know I would.

3. Please do not shame those that want to explore things beyond bedside nursing. This is really not a competition of what's better for humanity or what version of nursing truly exemplifies the caring spirit. Diversity is good!!! We need nurse researchers! Nurse educators! Nurse informaticists (did I say that right? Public health nurses! ICU nurses! Hospice, cardiac cath, peds, urgent care, OR, PACU, home health, LTC, rehab, nurse practitioners, clinical nurse specialists, corrections nursing, forensic nursing - IT'S ALL GOOD!!! And you can't change my mind in any of it. Love each other and peace out âœŒðŸ¾

Jules A, MSN · Dec 5, 2016

Jules, to be clear, I did not know that you were an NP. My comment about "older NPs" was not meant to be a slight against you. I am sorry if it came off that way.
I do not work with any DNPs. I work exclusively with MSN NPs. I also work at an academic hospital, so NPs are quite common here. I have yet to see any nurse practitioner introduce themselves as "doctor." Nor am I likely to, as I don't work with any DNPs. Do I doubt that some NPs fail to correct this mistaken identity? Of course not. However, I believe this is more of a recycled argument than a valid reason as to why nurses are pursuing advanced degrees (perhaps money might be one reason).
I never claimed that you were "bitter" and, like you, I do not believe that you should be able to advance without any bedside experience. I am not sure why you assume that I believe otherwise. This thread is about those that go to nursing school with the intention of becoming an APRN, CNS, management, etc., as opposed strictly working bedside for the duration of their career.
I am very happy for you that you have plenty of experience and an excellent salary. However, I care more about my own career than ensuring you live comfortably by limiting myself. Your personal career is a non-issue to me, and I am sure that mine is of no concern to you, as well. I know that you understand salary is region dependent. The job market is fluid and changes often. I am sure there are NPs that accept poor salaries, however, recent research shows that salaries for NPs have steadily increased over recent years.
Here is an article from AANP as a reference: AANP - Annual Income For Full-time Nurse Practitioners Up 1% Since 211
I have no doubts that you are a fantastic nurse practitioner, but you are not the only person who desires to go into this field, nor are you the only person capable of doing so. We are all professionals with our own personal goals. Your own self-interest is irrelevant to someone else's career aspirations, and vice versa. I am sure that you make a measurable difference in your patient's lives. I have respect for you as a professional.
Best wishes to you, and I mean that very sincerely.

Wow, I'm really surprised to read what comes off as a rather defensive retort. I actually thought we were basically on the same page just coming from perhaps different angles. FWIW I am older and bitter by my own account so I asserting you insinuated either. Unfortunate miscommunication in online mode I suppose.