What is a union????

redwinggirlie · Feb 1, 2006

I grew up with Unions. They helped a lot of people and still do, in the circle of friends I have in unions. But, you have to have a mind to belong. I did when I lived in the Midwest, even jobs not as a nurse.

Out west here, no way... you are on your own.

Guess it is the choice of the person. I never had a problem with a union. I have had problems wiithout.

Be well.

allnurses Guide · Feb 5, 2006

I work in a union hospital, and have been a member of the union for many years. The union brought wages up, protected our health insurance when the admin. tried to gut it, forced scheduling protections (you know, little things like 11 hours off between 12 hour shifts, or 15 between 8 hour ones), no mandatory overtime, call back pay.

Unions that have no participation, or strong membership, in house leadership, won't do you a thing. If you are in a hospital that got to the point of needing union protection, it means enough nurses at sometime in the past were pushed to point they thought it worth paying dues for. Get the history, and the current state of affairs before you take the job. I would recommend my working conditions to anyone looking for a job. Not always perfect, but liveable.

Hodge · Feb 7, 2006

Like the 40 hour work week, child labor laws, vacation, and days off??? If you do, thanks the unions..........

lorster · Feb 8, 2006

I am a union nurse and would have it no other way. I am new to this site and was just reading about the Tenn nurse who was fired on the spot....within hours of whistleblowing. My union would never have allowed that and I would have had representation on the spot. My hospital has to go through a process as a result....to fire me and it is much harder to do. Unions are the organizations of the middle class worker and we are being squeezed out more and more every day and we must fight for our rights to a voice in the organization in which we work. Before you dump on the union....please read on why unions were formed in the first place. It may not change your mind but at least there is someone to turn to when things get bad at work.

pickledpepperRN · Feb 12, 2006

When nurses are united we can accomplish great things.

-------------------------------------------

...Specifically, through arbitration, unions have enforced contractual provisions establishing affirmative employer obligations not to reduce staff or to maintain minimum staffing levels...

...Moreover, the just-cause provision has been used to protect employees from charges of negligence in cases when understaffing has prevented close monitoring of patients....

http://baywood.metapress.com/(lrs3hl55mqihwwjujfeuraf5)/app/home/contribution.asp?referrer=parent&backto=issue,4,6;journal,5,119;linkingpublicationresults,1:300318,1

----------------

Staffing Level at Massachusetts Hospital Violated Nurses' Contract, Arbitrator Rules

http://www.jacksonlewis.com/legalupdates/article.cfm?aid=762

NurseKevin · Feb 18, 2006

Unions are a politcal machine that spreads the misery equally. Just like the socialism that they promote within the government...

Merit pay...forget it.

You do better work than the guy/gal next you you...So?

And oh yeah, all those dues...might as well just donate to the Democratic National Convention, because that is where your dues are going... and if you don't like that...you can resign the union, but you still have to pay dues.. ain't that great?

Sheri257 · Feb 18, 2006

Who cares about union politics? I don't. What I do care about is whether I'll be able to retire in 20 years. And after shopping around at a dozen or so hospitals in my area ... guess what? The only decent retirement plans are found at union hospitals. At non-union hospitals, the retirement benefits are practically non-existent. I mean ... it's really pathetic. You could work 20 years at these non-union shops and easily end up with nothing. Yet, you're supposed to be thrilled to work there because there's no union. C'mon ... if the choice is no pension versus a union ... guess what ... I'll take the union. To me: any negatives associated with a union are nothing compared to being old and destitute because you decided to go non-union and give up any chance of a decent pension.

:nurse:

NurseKevin · Feb 18, 2006

Who cares about union politics? I don't. What I do care about is whether I'll be able to retire in 20 years. And after shopping around at a dozen or so hospitals in my area ... guess what? The only decent retirement plans are found at union hospitals. At non-union hospitals, the retirement benefits are practically non-existent. I mean ... it's really pathetic. You could work 20 years at these non-union shops and easily end up with nothing. Yet, you're supposed to be thrilled to work there because there's no union. C'mon ... if the choice is no pension versus a union ... guess what ... I'll take the union. To me: any negatives associated with a union are nothing compared to being old and destitute because you decided to go non-union and give any chance of a decent pension.

Hmmm

IRAs, stocks, bonds...savings accounts...planning for the future..? you do know that if the company/corp that you work for goes belly up that nifty union contract and guarenteed pension is out the window right? Ask UAL employees...

Sheri257 · Feb 18, 2006

Hmmm
IRAs, stocks, bonds...savings accounts...planning for the future..? you do know that if the company/corp that you work for goes belly up that nifty union contract and guarenteed pension is out the window right? Ask UAL employees...

Yeah well ... Kaiser, just as an example, recently made a $500 million payment to fully fund their pension plan. They are also a union shop. So it really depends on which organization you're working for and the status of their pension funding. Unions are also starting to negotiate pension funding as part of their contracts.

Regardless, some pension benefits have got to be better than zero ... and zero is all you get with non-union shops. I don't see why you should settle for zero benefits just to be non-union when there are union employers who are willing to fund their pension plans.

:nurse:

NurseKevin · Feb 18, 2006

Yeah well ... Kaiser, just as an example, recently made a $500 million payment to fully fund their pension plan. They are also a union shop. So it really depends on which organization you're working for and the status of their pension funding. Unions are also starting to negotiate pension funding as part of their contracts.
Regardless, some pension benefits have got to be better than zero ... and zero is all you get with non-union shops. I don't see why you should settle for zero benefits just to be non-union when there are union employers who are willing to fund their pension plans.

I doubt that Kaiser's pension plan is fully funded with only 500 million, as large as a company as it is. I imagine that it would need to be at least 1.5 billion to begin to cover current and future pension payouts.

Would you happen to have a link?

There are plenty of non union shops that offer retirement plans, just need to shop around, and as with everything else in life, if you take responsibility for yourself and plan ahead, chances are you are going to be OK.

The Sphynx · Feb 18, 2006

Originally, I was not in the pro-union camp. They did come to my aid when I needed them.

In Nevada (particularly Las Vegas), the entire health care

system is owned and run by for-proft hospitals. That is 9 hospitals by 3 corp's and they have not treated their nurses well. They would keep everyone underpaid despite having the largest nursing shortage in the

country. Give you an excuse of "supply and demand" and tell you that they

can't afford to pay nurses well.

At the same time, they would brag about their high profit margins. If you

did'nt like it you were told you could leave, however, they would try and

make sure you could'nt go to the competitors by trumping up charges against you with the nursing boards.

Even with the union contracts, they fail to abide by the fedral laws. However, the nurses are protected by law because of it. The union does

provide good advantages for nursing:

1) Political organization skills are what unions are good at and nurses are

not. The high school theorey of writing your congressman will only get your letter in the trash can. But strength and political access wil get you much further. (The dues are tax write offs along with your other nursing

equipment)

2) At CHW where I now work at. We actually have a collaborative relationship and are the only private non-profit in the area. SEIU(Union) actually assisted in pulling the organization out-of-the-red. It gave the staff, more of a voice and makes us more competitive against our local for-profit

competitors.

3)Nurses need to realize that the state hospital associations are not friendly

to the objectives of the nursing association. We are outmanuevered here

and need a more level playing field. The interesting thing that I learned was

the ins/outs of the system. I did'nt know that over 50% of the hospital profits were from tax payer dollars. I also found out that the local high profits were funding the other hospitals outside Nevada with far less nursing shortages than we will ever see.

4) Collective bargaining units are exempt from recent overtime changes

by fedral law. Nurses won't have to worry about being slapped with straight salaries as a cost cutting move by extremely proftable groups. It is not in the unions interest to put a company in the red.

5)The SEIU union never acts alone. It is managed by the nurses for the

nurses. We stewards are their to make sure the contract is being followed.

The nurses voted it in and it must be followed and respected by fedral law.

The corp's cannot thumb their nose at fedral law on a whim like they often try to do here.

In short, it takes a lot of resentment and desperation to get nurses to bring

in a union. That resentment is only because of horrid treatment by the corp's. Now people are not worried about being fired over the accusations

of a bad physician. It has improved our physician-nurse relationships at least psychologically on both sides.

If your hospital treats you well without one-more power to you. If you are ever in Las Vegas, it is wise to be a part of one with a union (which is growing at astronomical rates) or get out altogether (like others have chosen to do). If we can't attract nurses to Nevada, we won't be able to maintain a already crumbling health system. Many nurses have found more

profitable careers here outside of nursing where they can get paid more and are well respected by their new employers.

Sheri257 · Feb 18, 2006

I doubt that Kaiser's pension plan is fully funded with only 500 million, as large as a company as it is. I imagine that it would need to be at least 1.5 billion to begin to cover current and future pension payouts.
Would you happen to have a link?
There are plenty of non union shops that offer retirement plans, just need to shop around, and as with everything else in life, if you take responsibility for yourself and plan ahead, chances are you are going to be OK.

You're right. The plan wasn't fully funded at $500 million. The shortfall was $500 million and the payment covered the shortfall in order to fully fund the plan. I don't have a link handy but it was covered in the news.

I've looked at these so-called non-union retirement plans, mostly 401K's. Big deal. You can work for 20 years and the most the company will contribute after all that time is one year's salary. That does not provide much of a retirement. 401K money runs out. A pension has to be paid until you die. It's a much better deal for the worker, and union shops are pretty much the only places where you can get real pension plans these days.

Of course you have to save and plan for retirement but, why work your butt off for a company that's only going to contribute one year's salary to your retirement? It's a joke. If unions are delivering real pensions that are far better, then it only makes sense to work for a union shop. Otherwise, you're just screwing yourself.

:coollook: