What do you think?

[dissatisfiedchemist]

How much is an education worth? All my life, I've been told that nothing can take the place of a proper education. A medical education is even more priceless these days since there's a serious nurse shortage in this country. Nursing schools everywhere are flooded with hopefuls, trying their hand this exciting field. As we all know, instruction varies from school to school. But at some schools, there is little to no instruction. As a nursing student, I entered the classroom like the rest of my classmates: bright, cheery, fully expecting to be instructed by the best that there was. But my hopes, like so many others, were dashed and my experience left me feeling like this wasn't supposed to be; like I wasn't supposed to be here. Surely, I've learned so much. I know things that I'd have never learned otherwise, but at what cost? At the cost of backstabbing, "class-size control", and unfair accusations. My nursing class, which started in December, is one of the biggest the school has seen in some time. That's a good thing, right? Well, not to some of the administration around here. For them, twenty-seven is simply too big a number to instruct, too big a number to get clinical site for. Here's a prime example: My class wanted to see some medical exhibit, but we have been denied the privilege due to the fact that our class is just too big. So we should be penalized for not quitting or failing the program? I, for one, do not understand the problem with a large class size since the goal is to create as many successful nurses as needed. I just figure that the more people to pass the course, that's more people who will pass the boards. While I cannot insinuate that the staff is somehow in on getting rid of my fellow students to suit them, I (along with some of my classmates) have our suspicions.

Throughout most of our first semester there was pretty much no instruction. Our "instructor" read from paraphrased powerpoints verbatim and never asked questions, or if we understood, or even turned around. Needless to say, we were teaching ourselves. If it hadn't been for study groups formed out of the kindness of others, I can honestly say that I would not be here right now. Now, then, we passed our tests and finals due to our instructor providing detailed test reviews. But near the end of our first semester, something interesting took place. Our instructor cut us off from the test reviews. Although she said that she would "wean us off of the test reviews a little bit at a time" because we should not expect such treatment in the future. What ended up happening is that we were told that 7 of us had to "remediate" (a word that went out of style decades ago) and that two failed out right. Once again, we had been misinformed. It turns out that the two who failed did not. Our wonderful instructor horribly miscalculated their grades. I only say horribly due to the fact that these individuals were told that they had both received 69% for their final grade, when it was in fact 75%! That's a difference of 6%! It may not seem like much, but when that small percentage change is the difference between continuing your nursing education and throwing away approx. $8500, it matters. Oh and that instructor, who didn't teach, messed up grades, and stated openly that there were people in the class she wanted to get rid of? She's still here. Wrongly instructing a brand new class.

Recently, we (our class) is just about finished with the first semester, we have a different instructor, and we've already met our instructor for the next semester. Are things better? No. I am one of three people accused of cheating. I have been told that the instructor received a text message that there was something going on during the test. Of course the accusation is untrue as cheating is as far from my persona as Pluto is from the warmth of the sun. Here is the most ignorant part of the whole ordeal: one of the three students accused of cheating quit the program. The other student (besides me) was no where near enough to do anything. What happened? Well, I suspect, someone has a problem with me and the other two who are my best friends. As for what the staff is doing about it? Nothing at the moment. Nothing will probably ever be done. This facility is far more interested in getting as many people to sign up as possible so they can get more money. I will say now what I've been saying for the last three months: I should have finished my chemistry education in my university instead of taking a break to get into the medical field. So, if you're looking to become a nurse, try another school. Don't give your money to these sharks.

[Daytonite, BSN, RN]

question: what do you think?

you've made an accusation and i wonder what proof you have to back it up. . .the one regarding the school signing up as many people as possible just to collect the tuition. sounds to me like you are upset at your experience in this school. i'd be angry if i were accused of cheating too. there are a lot of fine nursing schools. change schools.

[classicdame, MSN, EdD]

Also, education is self-teaching. I see students who expect the instructor to open the student's brain and pour stuff in. Classes just provide direction, not learning. YOU do the learning. That is a hard concept for some people to accept. But if a nurse is not self-motivated and has self-discipline there will be plenty of opportunity for misery in the future. If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.

[llg, PhD, RN]

What type of school is it? ... A state-run university? ... A private, not-for-profit religious school? .... A for-profit program? etc.

Not all schools are alike. Some are in business primarily to make money. That is what the corporation that owns them does: it makes money for the people who own the company. They make money by recruiting students to take the classes that qualify them to sit for the NCLEX exam. So they want to recruit as many studens as possible -- even if it means that the quality of the education will suffer -- or if it means that a lot of students have to be "weeded out" for one reason or another. It's sad, but students should know at least a little about the school before handing over their money.

If it is a more respectable school, there will be appeals processes in place -- and "higher authorities" a student can go to when there are problems with the quality of the education and/or misconduct by the faculty. What avenues have you followed to resolve your problems, dissatisfiedchemist?

Don't judge an entire industry based on your experience with one poorly run school.

[dissatisfiedchemist]

Also, education is self-teaching. I see students who expect the instructor to open the student's brain and pour stuff in. Classes just provide direction, not learning. YOU do the learning. That is a hard concept for some people to accept. But if a nurse is not self-motivated and has self-discipline there will be plenty of opportunity for misery in the future. If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.

If I thought education was expensive, I'd have quit school back in the fifth grade when my teacher told me I'd never be anything. I'm not a quitter. I plan to stick through this although the system is grossly inadequate. "Ignorance is bliss" for some, but not for me. There's nothing wrong with the nursing industry as a whole. I just have a problem with the fact that this school is trying their best to intimidate my class into silence. Not all education is self-teaching. This isn't my first time in college. And the proof that the school is after money? It's all around us. The school is over-crowded; today my class had to fight to get a classroom. And no matter how many people sign up, even with the school at maximum capacity, there are always people taking their campus tours and paying their money. In our initial interviews, we were given the sugar-coated version of things. That the school was well known for it's NCLEX pass rates, that it's been around for years, that it's such a great program, and with teachers that have been here for such a long time. Our first teacher? It was her first time teaching. Our current teacher and our teacher next semester? They've been teaching for three years. This school is short on staff and overcrowded. Brilliant. No nurses I know want to take any of the openings here. And I don't blame them.

[dissatisfiedchemist]

What type of school is it? ... A state-run university? ... A private, not-for-profit religious school? .... A for-profit program? etc.

Not all schools are alike. Some are in business primarily to make money. That is what the corporation that owns them does: it makes money for the people who own the company. They make money by recruiting students to take the classes that qualify them to sit for the NCLEX exam. So they want to recruit as many studens as possible -- even if it means that the quality of the education will suffer -- or if it means that a lot of students have to be "weeded out" for one reason or another. It's sad, but students should know at least a little about the school before handing over their money.

If it is a more respectable school, there will be appeals processes in place -- and "higher authorities" a student can go to when there are problems with the quality of the education and/or misconduct by the faculty. What avenues have you followed to resolve your problems, dissatisfiedchemist?

Don't judge an entire industry based on your experience with one poorly run school.

Oh and to answer your question? I haven't been moved to do anything about it. I've stood by and watched as my classmates appealed wrongdoings of the faculty and I've watched them been turned away with placating responses. My best friend here tried to appeal to an unfair descision and was threatened with being thrown out of school. So, I've got great reason to keep my mouth shut. Not to mention, due to the accusation of cheating, I'm already facing being thrown out myself.

[jjjoy, LPN]

While I'm sure there are some great nursing programs out there, from my own experience (at a well-reputed state university) and what I've heard from MANY others, you're not alone in your dissatisfaction with nursing education. When you hear intelligent, well-educated, otherwise successful and motivated people complain that their nursing school isn't educating them, I think it merits more than just a condescending comment that one shouldn't expect to be spoon-fed in school. And as you look through the threads here, you'll see that when students bring up issues they have with their education, many nursing graduates will advise students to keep their heads down, fly under the radar, not make waves, just get through it... because they know from experience that in many (not all) schools, to question the instruction comes at great risk and rarely brings about change.

[Daytonite, BSN, RN]

And the proof that the school is after money? It's all around us. The school is over-crowded; today my class had to fight to get a classroom. And no matter how many people sign up, even with the school at maximum capacity, there are always people taking their campus tours and paying their money.

Would some of the instructors reading this help out here. Aren't the schools granted a license to operate by their state boards given a specific limit as to how many students they may admit into their program as part of their operating license?

The last thing I would be advising someone to be evaluating a school on is a high NCLEX pass rate. High NCLEX pass rates = high flunk out rates. That leaves only the cream of the crop left to pass the NCLEX and another bunch with broken dreams of being nurses!

[WanaBaNurse]

Don't mean to make light of the situation but.....today at clinical one of the students (first semester, works as a CNA) and I got a chance to take out staples for the first time....well the "instructor" began to show us how to take them out and was doing it wrong so the other student had to show her the proper way...lol...I just have to shrug it off...been mad about the lack of knowledge from instructors too long.....just keep self teaching myself and asking reputable nurses to show me the correct way......3 more semesters..ahhhh

Hope everything works out about the cheating. I'd be furious if I got blamed for that. Give us an update...

[shock-me-sane]

nursing school isn't all it is cracked up to be. neither (I have seen) is the actual nursing profession. A year and a half ago I went through hell with an untrue accusation about my group's project. It is what you make of it. Nothing is perfect. My class has been labeled as the troublemakers because we demand our education and want to learn and be active.

It is a hard road, but I will graduate in a little less than 2 months. School sucks, but no one can take away your acheivement if you decide to perservere.

[amjowens]

I'm also disappointed with my experience in school. I also attended college toward a degree in biology. Compared to my nursing instructors, where my pharm instructor literally reads powerpoint blocks to us, my undergrad science education was amazing. Professors respected students with questions, insight, and a desire to think outside-the-box. It was challenging, but we were guided and treated like students who wanted to learn. I don't think nursing instructors tend to bring out the best in students. In fact, quite the opposite. It's sad. And, I don't buy the bit of survival of the fittest, and learn it on your own theory. If that were true, then students of law, engineering, medicine, etc. would take a nose dive once they've graduated from their chosen professions. In other academic settings, good, solid instruction is valued.